Speaking With Confidence

Navigating Generational Differences: The Power of Relationship-Based Leadership with Gen Z Teams

• Tim Newman • Season 1 • Episode 106

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What does it really take to lead and communicate with Generation Z in today’s workplace? On this episode of Speaking with Confidence, I sit down with Dr. Tim Elmore, founder of Growing Leaders, bestselling author, and expert in multi-generational leadership. Dr. Elmore has spent decades developing emerging leaders—including an impressive 20 years by the side of John C. Maxwell—and he’s written extensively on what makes great leadership tick, especially in our rapidly evolving culture. If you’ve ever struggled to connect with Gen Z professionals or wondered why their anxiety levels seem so high, this is an episode you don’t want to miss.

I’ve long believed that Gen Z is smarter and more entrepreneurial than previous generations, and finally, Dr. Elmore’s new book, The Future Begins with Z, delivers the data to back it up. In our conversation, we explore the shifts in social and technological dynamics that have shaped Gen Z, especially how anxiety (now at levels comparable to psychiatric patients in the 1950s) has become a natural outgrowth of the overwhelming flood of information they face daily. We dig into the critical distinction between post-traumatic stress and post-traumatic growth—how leaders and educators can help foster resilience instead of victimhood.

Here’s what we cover in the episode:

  • The roots of Gen Z’s high anxiety and how social media amplifies it
  • Coaching young professionals through stress and building grit with empathy and compassion
  • Key differences between post-traumatic growth and stress, and how to foster resilience
  • How educators and employers can prepare Gen Z for professional success—through realistic expectations and reframing self-talk
  • The “Stockdale Paradox” and the difference between hope and optimism in leadership
  • The misconception that Gen Z doesn’t want to work, and data from real-world focus groups that prove otherwise
  • The necessity of building trust and relationships before offering feedback or correction (“Connect before you correct”), and the ALEG feedback process
  • Teaching and modeling soft skills that Gen Z may be missing due to pandemic-era screen life
  • Why authentic, frequent, and brief communication trumps lengthy, infrequent updates—and why daily check-ins matter
  • How leaders can admit mistakes openly to build trust and model real communication
  • The velvet-covered brick as a metaphor for leadership: balancing empathy with accountability
  • Recognizing and responding appropriately to practical, social, and emotional conversations—especially when leading younger team members

We wrap up with actionable steps for leading Gen Z better, starting right now—not tomorrow. If you want practical strategies, stories, and a hopeful look at how Gen Z can make us stronger leaders when we rise to the occasion, you’ll find gold in this episode. I’m grateful to Dr. Tim Elmore for joining the conversation and sharing his wisdom. For everyone ready to adapt, lead, and have more confident conversations with the next generation, this episode is for you.

Connect with Tim:

Website: https://growingleaders.com
Website: https://www.timelmore.com

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Tim Newman:

Welcome back to Speaking with Confidence, a podcast that helps you build the soft skills that lead to real results. Communication, storytelling, public speaking, and showing up with confidence in every conversation that counts. I'm Tim Newman, a recovering college professor turning communication coach, and I'm thrilled to guide you on a journey to becoming a powerful communicator. Today's guest is Dr. Tim Elmore. Tim is the founder of Growing Leaders, an Atlanta-based nonprofit organization created to developing emerging leaders. His work grew out of 20 years of serving alongside Dr. John C. Maxwell. Elmore has appeared in the Wall Street Journal, The Washington Post, USA Today, Psychology Today. He's also been featured on CNN's Headline News, Fox Business, Newsmax TV, and Fox and Friends to talk about leading multiple generations in the marketplace. He's written over 35 books, including Habitudes, Images of Form Leadership, Habits, and Attitudes, Eight Paradoxes of Great Leadership, and a New Kind of Diversity, making different generations on your team a competitive advantage. His latest book, The Future Begins with Z, Nine Strategies to Lead Generation Z as they upset the marketplace, was released in the fall of 2025. Tim, welcome to speaking with confidence. I'm so happy to have you today.

SPEAKER_00:

Thank you, Tim. We're going to have a great conversation, I can tell.

Tim Newman:

And we are not just because our name is Tim, and not just because we dress the light, but we've got a lot of information to cover. And uh I got to tell you what when I heard you talk about your new book, you know, The Future Begins with Z, on a podcast with John Maxwell and Mark Cole. I told my wife wife that there was finally some data on some of the things that I've been saying for years, such as that the Gen Z is smarter than previous generations. Gen Z is more entrepreneurial than other generations, but they're the worst communicators.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

Tim Newman:

So I again really looking forward to talking to you about about Gen Z and why we need to make some fundamental changes in how we lead and communicate with them.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, good. I'm ready. Let's do it.

Tim Newman:

All right. So the first thing that that really, really jumped out at me is the whole idea of anxiety that our young professionals are facing. And let me just make sure I get the stat right, that the anxiety levels today are the same as a psychiatric patient. A psychiatric patient in 1950s. Yes. How did we get here, Tim?

SPEAKER_00:

How did that happen? It was a slow evolution that happened even before the smartphone, but the smartphone absolutely accelerated the rise of anxiety, panic attacks, feeling overwhelmed. But Tim, if you think about it, uh a young person or an old person for that matter, that's on social media, when you add the messaging from social media to every other source of communication coming at them, it's 10,000 messages every day. I don't think we're hardwired to take in 10,000 messages in every day. So um, so if you're communicating, you're up against 9,999 other messages. Good luck with that. But I also think it puts a Gen Z, who's a young adult now, in an overwhelming spot. That's the number one word that college students today use to describe their life. I'm overwhelmed. So uh the anxiety is a natural outgrowth of the new world we're living in. And I think we're gonna have to find not just coping mechanisms, but coping skills in order to thrive in this new day.

Tim Newman:

Yeah, you know, throughout my career, I there was I made two major pivots in my career uh uh around some of the things that were happening socially. One was in the late 2000s around social media. You know, I had kids at the point at that point, I asked my daughter who was uh she was in middle school, asked her about Twitter, and she said, Dad, you don't want anything to do with Twitter. And I said, Okay, that means I better figure out what Twitter is. Yeah, yeah. And the second and the second was around 2017, 2018, when I noticed, number one, I wasn't connecting with students like I used to, and the level of anxiety, how they would get so upset over j just something small that that I would think would be trivial, and I didn't know how to handle it. I didn't I didn't know what what to do. Um so what can we do as as the older generations to to number one adjust, but also coach them to have grit. You talk about grit in your um in your book. What can we do?

SPEAKER_00:

Two things I always like to say about anxiety. When I look at the data, I think, depending on the young person that might be in front of you, they're either needed going to need to be coached up by us saying, hey, listen, we're all a little anxious right now. It's it's it's a normal part of life. You're not weird, you're not abnormal, we're all a little stressed, and stop thinking that you have some disorder. Let's just make it through the stress. Sometimes I think we need to say that. The other angle or the other side of the same coin, Tim, is this. I think we who are, let's say, over 40 years old, need to make sure we start with empathy in order to get to that grit we want to develop in them. Um, I think it's easy for someone like me who's in the 45th year of his career, to say, come on, just grow up, grow a little grit, you know, suck it up, buttercup, you know, those kinds of things. And and while I'm tempted to do that, that's never gotten me any good outcome. No doubt. But I can lean in and say, listen, I know it's weird right now. I know it's hard right now, but we can do it together. So in the book, I talk about PTSD, which we've all heard, that term we're all familiar with, even if you're a layman when it comes to psychology, post-traumatic stress disorder. 82% of Gen Z members claim to have gone through a trauma. And for many of them, it was the pandemic, and that was real for sure. But we rarely talk about PTG, post-traumatic growth. Growth, yeah. Which actually 80% of the people that go through trauma end up with PTG and not end up with PTSD. So they end up in a growth area. But Tim, here's what you and I will both love. It usually happens when they go through the trauma, but someone comes alongside of them and is able to communicate. Look at how you've gotten better and stronger and healthier and more joyful and grateful as a result of that hardship. Now, I probably sound like Grandpa right now, but it's basically us saying, listen, good things can happen through hard times. It's a weight room. I go into the weight room. Do I like the lifting of weights? No, I don't. But boy, I like the aftermath when I look a little stronger uh afterwards. So I'll stop there. But PTG is what we've got to go for when it comes to the empathy and the and the stress that we face right now.

Tim Newman:

Well, I I'd like for you to talk a little bit more about PTG because uh, you know, again, that that's something that uh number one, I didn't know there was a term for it, but you can see it. When when you work with people and and you and you and you see where they are and you get them going and get them moving forward, and then watch them look back and say, look, you know, thank you for for helping me, and this is where I grew, and thank you for doing or saying this. Um and being intentional about helping them grow. Can you can you talk a little bit about that?

SPEAKER_00:

Absolutely. So it's a mindset shift, isn't it? It's a way of helping another or ourselves for that meant. We may need to look in the mirror and do this. But we look at them and we say, I acknowledge your hardship. So I am empathizing with you. I'm acknowledging it's hard. However, as I we go forward, I know the worst thing I can leave you with is a victim mindset. Yes, you're a victim. We're probably all victims. We could all rehearse for 30 minutes over the things that have gone wrong. But what if I allow for that young person, a Gen Z member, for instance, to say, I get it, but I cannot leave you where you are. So I actually uh differentiate in the book between empathy and compassion. It's just semantics, but let me tell you what helps me. If I'm empathetic to a Gen Z member, I say, Oh, I feel your hurt. Okay, I hurt with you. That's empathy. I've stepped into your shoes. That's empathy. When I'm compassionate, I feel that empathy, but I but I want to equip them to make it through that tough time. So it's the difference. Here's a metaphor. It's the difference between uh you being in the hospital and you get a visit from a friend and you get a visit from a nurse. A friend can sit down next to your bed and say, gee, I'm so sorry this has happened to you. Can I get you a cup of water? A nurse says, I'm really sorry about this, but let's do, let me treat you right now. Let me get you through this hardship, this sickness, or this disease. That's what we need to be nurses or doctors, not just friends when it comes to uh the stress levels we see.

Tim Newman:

Yeah, and I I kind of relate that to I had my knee replaced a couple years ago. Um my wife was there, you know, and you know, make me feel good. And the physical therapist said, okay, get up, let's go, let's let's go for a walk. Doc, I'd rather just stay here. It's good. But you gotta get, you have to, that's that's part of it, you have to get up and move. And and you said something you've been through some traumas, seven car accidents, and I've never spoken to somebody who's survived a plane crash. And so we you know we like you said, we all have trauma, we all have have those things, and finding ways to to to move forward. And I you know, I I think about it from a from an educational perspective. And I'm a lot like you in in the whole idea of pracademics. You know, I my background my background was in uh sport management, so I worked with sport marketing. And if if if we didn't practice pracademics, our students would never get jobs in that industry. Um but from an educational perspective, what what can we be doing we be doing as educators with with our students so that they're ready or they're they're more ready tomorrow to go out in the world of work um than they are now?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. I'll tell you what's going through my mind right now, Tim, and this may or may not be a great answer, but here's what streaked through my mind. Um I think we need to help them manage their expectations. So without stereotyping, there's a lot of Gen Zers that either through social media or through mama who told them they're awesome for putting the spoon in the dishwasher. Yeah, they've got um maybe an unrealistic expectation. And I tell you where I learned this. I talk to employers that go, oh my gosh, I just interviewed a job candidate who's from Gen Z and they expected a six-digit salary, and I want to have, you know, I want to be a VP by the time I'm 26, and they're going, oh my gosh. So in the in the book, I talk about the fact that conflict expands based on the distance between expectations and reality. If we don't right-size those maybe unrealistic, idealistic expectations, we've done them a disservice. So it's a mindset shift. Um, the second thing that goes through my mind, though, is I think we need to um offer them a different narrative. For instance, if they feel like they are a victim of circumstances, I can't find a job, or my boyfriend book broke up with me, or I've been through this trauma and now I can't get out of it. Um I think we need to help them change what they how they talk to themselves. Oh, we see. So um here's here's a couple of examples. I I noticed this year, Tim, that um probably because I'm aging, I'm now in my 60s, I I'm noticing that uh uh my brain is focusing on problems that need to be solved more than ever. And I did a little research behind this, and here's what I discovered. As we age, our brain knows we're gonna have to conserve energy as we get older. We're not as energetic as we were when we were in our 20s. So, in that conserving of energy, we tend to not focus on what's right. That doesn't need our attention. It's going well. We need to focus on what's wrong. So this makes sense.

Tim Newman:

Oh, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00:

We start, we tend to ruminate on these things that are going wrong. Well, next thing I know, I'm a grumpy old man. I'm over speaking, but you know, I'm I get you right. Get off my lawn, you know, those kinds of things.

unknown:

Right.

SPEAKER_00:

So, so what I'm doing now, when I get up in the morning, uh, one of the first things I do, I put my slippers on, I go get a drink of water, but I say to myself, good things keep happening to me. Now it's true, but I tend to look at the things that I need to fix that day. So on my iPhone, I have in the notes section a list of things I've written down that are good things that just keep happening to me. Wow. The phone keeps ringing with opportunities. I have an incredible family, and my kids have found spouses that we love. Uh, you know, those kinds of things. Yes, right, right. It's more than a gratitude thing, though, Tim. It's more I'm acknowledging that, yeah, there's some problems that need to be solved. I'm not in denial, but good things keep happening. It puts a skip in my step. So I'm wondering, could we take that person in front of us, young or old for that matter, and remind them you got some momentum now and you don't even know it, or maybe you're not realizing it. So I'll stop there.

Tim Newman:

But it's but again, that that's that's so so powerful. You know, if if if we can make them have that make we can't make them do anything, but but if we can get them to understand that mind shift and practice it, it's it's small steps, small steps, small steps. And yeah, you know, I'm so glad you you you mentioned your your family and your kids. I've got grandkids now, and and well, yeah. I live in I live in South Carolina, so it's it's it's cold today, but we're going up for for for Christmas here, and it's gonna be cold. And I I told my wife, I said, look, let's just go up. We're gonna be we're gonna be with our kids, we're gonna be with our grandkids. Let's not we're not gonna complain that it's cold. We're good, we're gonna be around our the our most important treasures.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

Tim Newman:

Let's just have fun and enjoy it and take some of those other things. Now, again, like you said, not that they're not there, not that we're ignoring them, but we're gonna focus on the on the on those good pieces. And and if we can do that and the younger generations can see us doing that, maybe that's also something that's gonna trigger them to do the same.

SPEAKER_00:

I think so. You know, I'm thinking about the Stockdale paradox. Um, Admiral James Stockdale was a Vietnam um officer who was the highest ranking officer to be caught by the by the North Vietnamese and put in a POW camp. Long story short, he's in that camp, I think, for seven years. So this is not a cakewalk, and it went on a long time. He made it out. And so he was interviewed um and by Jim Collins from Stanford. And Jim Collins said, Um, well, what enabled you to, you know, to make it out? And he said, Well, um, I was hopeful. I stayed hopeful. And then he defined it as, I always believed that one day I would prevail and make it out of this and I would do something good with this. Jim Collins said in response, Wow, that's great. Who didn't make it out? And you know what he said? He said, it was the optimist. And and Collins said, wait, I thought you just said you were optimistic. He said, No, I had hope. There's a difference between hope and hope and oh okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. And here's what he explained. He said, the optimists were the prisoners with me there that said, Well, by Easter, we'll all be out. And then Easter came and left, and they were still there. Well, by Christmas, we'll all be free. And then Christmas came and left. They were talking about things that are out of their control.

Tim Newman:

Right.

SPEAKER_00:

Hope was I am going to make it through this thing, and one day I believe I will benefit from this and make it out and so forth. So I think we need to be careful, especially as we coach others and we communicate to others, that we don't make promises that we're not in control of, right. Or, you know, whatever. We need to make sure that we're differentiating between I am hopeful, and I am hopeful right now. I'm hopeful in Gen for Gen Z and the difference they're going to make if we lead them well. But but I'm also staying away from those unrealistic expectations and yeah, that optimism that's just superficial.

Tim Newman:

Yeah. Was there a moment when you did your were doing research for this that you that you realized that you were underestimating Gen Z?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. Um the very opening story, I reveal that. I went into this research, like most others, let's just say people our age or past midlife, and I was thinking, ah, kids, they need to grow some grit. They need to be resilient, they need to not be lazy, they need to work hard. That sounds like a grandpa. But um, and by the way, I got that confirmed. Every employer I talked to, except maybe one or two, three out of four employers told me that Generation Z is the toughest generation to manage. Three out of four. Thirty percent of them said I fired them within the first month of their employment. And another 30%, Tim, said I avoid hiring Gen Z altogether. Well, that's not a path forward. That's just not a good path.

Tim Newman:

It's not. Yeah, it's not.

SPEAKER_00:

So I began to meet with these Gen Zers. I surveyed over 2,000, to be exact, 2014 members of Gen Z. Then I hosted focus groups, 21 focus groups, from California to Georgia. And I began to meet some young people where my mindset changed. So let me tell you one quick story. Colin Webb, I've known him since he was in high school. Colin graduated, and he was a smart kid. So he got an invitation to go up to MIT for his undergraduate work. Went to MIT, did really well. And you can imagine when he graduated, he got several job offers. So Colin decided to move from Boston to Detroit, Michigan, and work for one of the big three, General Motors, one of the big three automakers.

SPEAKER_01:

Right.

SPEAKER_00:

Now they put him in the smart car division, so he's very excited as he starts. But as he looks around, this young 22-year-old young man, he looks around, he sees, if I can be blunt, uh a very traditional setting. You know, they've been around 100 years or so, and they did some old school things. And so he began to write down a list of things that they could do better. They could do professional development better, they could do this system over here better. He took the list to his supervisor, and he pretty much got shut down. His supervisor basically said, Colin, we didn't hire you to come up with ideas. Keep your nose to the grindstone, keep your head down, get your work done. So Colin said, Yes, sir, went back to his desk, but he wasn't done. In the spirit of a true Gen Zer, Colin writes, the CEO of General Motors, Mary Barra. And in his email, he says, Mary, I have some great ideas that we could use here. I think, I think you'll like them. She reads the email and replies to him and says, Colin, these are really good ideas. Let me take them to my executive team. And when she did, they agreed that these were great ideas. But as you've heard me say before, when those ideas made its way down the organizational chart and got to the middle manager and his supervisor, once again they died on the vine. Yeah. Colin was told you need to be around here eight years before you get to lead anything. So you might as well have told Colin to leave right now. Right. Within a year he left. Here's what makes me optimistic. He left and has since, he's still in his 20s, he has since started three companies. He's an entrepreneur, a serial entrepreneur. He just sold company number two, made a boatload of money. He's working on a third now. It's it's it's AI related and it's incredible, and it's something I could never do. But I'm thinking to myself, we need those callings at our workplaces. Yes. But we lose them when we pretty much shut them down and say, here's the way we do them. We don't do things that way around here. So uh anyway, I'm very optimistic. The book isn't as a very hopeful book, but I think we're gonna need to change the way we lead them if we're gonna succeed.

Tim Newman:

Absolutely. And you know, I look at things maybe I look at things differently than than most, but to to me it comes back to building relationships and building trust before before you do anything else. And I think if if you build relationships and you build trust, everything that comes after that, whether it's it's tough times, whether it's feedback, whether it's um you make a mistake or what whatever it is, those things can be handled because there's that relationship. There's there's that trust that you know about it can be about any number of different things. And that's really what I think the Gen Z needs is to feel a part of things and to be trusted to be able to do things. And if they make a mistake, it's not that it's gonna be overlooked or washed away, but there will be some accountability, but it's not the end of the world.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, no doubt. You hit the nail on the head. I cannot underscore enough for listeners who care about young people. Their relationship is everything. They're looking to be trusted, and I know that's hard, bosses out there, because you go, Well, I don't even know if I can trust them yet, you know. But um, they're looking for that connection. I always tell people you got to connect before you correct. Uh that's just a fact. Today, especially. Uh, and I share an acronym uh when I talk about giving feedback to Gen Z, um, it's it's a leg, A-L-E-G, a leg. And it reminds me every time I have to have a hard conversation with somebody, I need to practice A-L-E-G. The letter A reminds me, I got to start with asking, not telling. I want to tell them what they've done wrong, but I need to start with, hey, tell me your thought process behind that decision you just made. What were you thinking there? You know? Um, when I ask someone how they came to this conclusion, they feel valued. I'm actually asking this young person. The letter A reminds me I've got to listen. And that's an art form that is hard for leaders. Um, the more you know, the harder it is to listen. And you feel like you know a lot. So uh but when I listen, they feel heard. And this is the number one thing they're looking for. So I want to have a voice, I want to be heard. The letter E in a leg, empathize. So that's what you were just talking about the connection, the relationship. I need to demonstrate or communicate. Uh I get it now, or I had no idea, but thanks for telling me. Or I bet that made you feel horrible when that happened. But when we do this, they feel understood. Right. So get it. They feel valued, they feel heard, they feel understood. When we've done this, Tim, now we've earned the right to practice letter G, which is to guide them. Right. That's what I wanted to do in the first place.

unknown:

Right.

SPEAKER_00:

But I've earned it now over the last 15 minutes or so through the bridge I built, not the badge I wear. And that's that badge, that bridge is the connection that you just talked about. I cannot underestimate or underscore enough how important that is. Yeah.

Tim Newman:

You know the the the trust, the listening, and you and in your book, you also talk about something that um is is it's it's easy to remember, but you know, when I when I tell people about this, they they look at me like I'm nuts. I said, when you talk, you need to talk with confidence, like you're right. Yeah. But when it's time to listen, you need to listen like you're wrong.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. Yeah.

Tim Newman:

I actually Especially with Gen Z. That's it's it's so important.

SPEAKER_00:

This is key. You're right. It's a practice I now have practiced for four years now. I did a book called The Eight Paradoxes of Great Leadership, and that's one of them. To be confident and humble. And that means speak with confidence, but listen with. I could be wrong about this. And that 22-year-old may just be right. Uh I think the best idea should win, even if it's from an intern and it's not Bob who's 54 years old or whatever. So yeah, I'm with you all the way.

Tim Newman:

You know, it it and talk about feedback, you know, in in the late in your last uh episode of your feedback, Generations at Work, you had a phenomenal guest on one that talked about um feedback and and how to give it because and it's so important. And you talked about you know the the five most important people in your life and how they gave you feedback, and the the basis of that feedback was because they care about you. Yes. Yes. No matter what it was, they be and you grew because they cared about you. And that's I think the the bottom line here.

SPEAKER_00:

You're you're exactly right. And if we do it out of belief, not relief, that's the key. So I know that's a cliche, but think think with me. I tend to offer hard feedback as a surgeon or a vampire. I know that's crazy, but stay with us. If I'm a vampire, by the way, am I right about this? Yeah, you're you're absolutely right. Both draw blood. They both draw blood, but very different. The vampire sneaks up on you in a darkened room, bites you, the blood comes out, and you die. You you fall to the ground. Surgeon, well-lit room. Everybody's prepared for what's about to happen. We've talked about it ahead of time. And the surgeon just removes that one tumor. He doesn't slice up your whole body. Right. I think we offer that surgery that other people need to hear, that feedback that may be hard. Like a surgeon, I do it out of belief in this person. I believe in you, and that's why I want to offer this hard because I think you're better than this. Yes. Or relief. I want to just relieve myself and vent. I want to get rid of this frustration I have with this young whipper snapper or whatever. So think belief, not relief, when you next time you have to have a hard conversation.

Tim Newman:

And and this kind of brings up something else. You know, you you talked a little bit about, you know, employers just kind of throwing their hands up and not even hiring Gen Z. Yeah. Or, you know, Gen Z haven't even had a conversation with somebody over 50 at their place of work. To me, that that just that's just a failure all the way around. Yeah. And we talk about responsibility from the employer side. And and and I've got friends who would throw their hands out, they can't, they uh kids won't read, they won't write, they won't do this. And and I talked to them, so what are you doing to to get them to do that? What are you get doing to entice them or showing them? But from the Gen Z perspective, they have some responsibility here as well.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, no doubt about it. And I think the answer is almost always in the middle when it comes to teams and work and so forth. Um I I will always challenge a young person to better themselves. Uh, in other words, I believe they're better than they just showed me in that last poor performance. So I'm gonna challenge you, I'm gonna call you up to that. But I think I need to lean into them as well. So I find the answer in the middle. And and uh when we do, we're communicating. I want to lean into you because I care about you, but I'm asking you to grow up. So one of the metaphors that we use, I use when I talk about this is the velvet-covered brick. Think about that. Yeah. Velvet brick is my best, uh my best image for what leadership is. Velvet on the outside, which says, I support you, I I'm behind you, I have your back, I believe in you. Right. The brick part is because I believe in you, I'm not gonna let you get by with poor performance here. Right. You're better than you just showed me, Josh or Jessica, and I'm gonna call it out of you. So that's what they need, supportive and demanding, supportive and demanding. And uh I I feel like when we do that, they're gonna become their best sells uh in the on the team.

Tim Newman:

Yeah, that and I I look at it like something very similar, but from the sports perspective, a coach, he's not gonna let you get away from get away from get away with that. That's right.

SPEAKER_00:

That's right.

Tim Newman:

They're gonna be all over you, and you and you if you're not gonna do it and get it right, after I mean we give you a couple opportunities, but then we're gonna move on to somebody else.

SPEAKER_00:

That's right. Absolutely. That's exactly and that's a real world picture. Coaches are probably a little more blunt than a professor sometimes because they got to win or they're out.

Tim Newman:

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00:

So um absolutely right. And I I I love student athletes who've gone through the the rigor and the discipline of a good coach because they believe they can do it and they have to give their best, or they don't play on Saturday, Saturday's game or Friday's match, or whatever.

Tim Newman:

Whatever it is, yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, right. Exactly.

Tim Newman:

So it in terms of communication, uh in the book you talk about the Gen Z one's communication that's authentic, brief, and frequent. Yeah. Which of those three do leaders get wrong the most?

SPEAKER_00:

Uh wow. Probably depends on the leader. I feel like I had to learn to be authentic as a boomer. Uh the reason I say that is not because boomers aren't authentic. I just feel like I entered my career in a time you bet your you put your best foot forward, never let them see you sweat, leave your personal problems at the door, get your work done, you know, blah, blah, blah. Today it's bring your whole self to work. So a Gen Zer comes in and they may bring their baggage, maybe, or their emotional volatility. So I had to learn to be authentic with them. And Tim, I don't think that means we hang out our dirty laundry every day. No, right, right. But it means I might say, yeah, this is a scary situation, isn't it? We're going through a pandemic right now. I've never been through one. Let's let's do this together. You know, that sort of thing. Right. So authenticity may be number one. It's just my guess. But I'm telling you, I have a hard time being brief sometimes. Have you can you tell already?

Tim Newman:

Yeah, but it for me it's frequent.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. Yes. Yeah.

Tim Newman:

They want it, they want it now, and they want it now. Okay, but I just I literally, I literally just talked to you 10 minutes ago.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, right. Tim, I was shocked when I read the data on this. The average Gen Zer at work in a job wants daily check-ins from their boss. When I say that to bosses, they go, Are you kidding me? I'm doing my own work. I I can't check on junior and am I okay over here? But um, the daily check-in makes sense because one, they may have all through school been playing video games where they get regular check-ins, you know exactly what level you're on in Grand Theft Auto or whatever, Minecraft. Uh, but also I think that um if they hear no news from their boss, they can assume the very worst. Right. Um, I worked for John Maxwell right out of college. I assume that if John didn't talk to me, I knew this is all good. We're all good. Let's keep that that in fact. I didn't want to have a meeting with him, you know, if it was at the end of the day. So I I feel like we just need to adapt as leaders and realize this new crop of young people need to be led differently. Um, I call them the sandpaper on my leadership that I did not know I needed. And they are gonna sandpaper me. I they're not gonna put up, if I can be blunt, they're not gonna put up with BS that I might have been prone to share. They're gonna demand that we're real and that we're honest and that we're disclosing where we are. Um, but when we do that, I think they're gonna go to the mat for us and and and oh they will.

Tim Newman:

Yeah. Yeah. You talk about the BS. Uh that they they've got a really good BS detector. I mean, they're they're really good about it. So what what communication habits instantly break that trust with them?

SPEAKER_00:

Wow. Well, inauthenticity, meaning I'm fake. They can smell a fake a mile away. That's the BS factor. So they can smell fake and that you're just, you know, not really being honest with me about what's what's happening. Um by the way, let me take a real quick sidebar since this is really on communication. I have found, and I did put this in the book, I have found that there's a sequence I need to follow if we're going through a difficult season, and I've got Gen Sears in front of me. Number one, by the way, there's three three big ideas here, okay? Number one, I need to um do hard before easy. Meaning if they know things are not going well, my my humanity says, Oh, let me share some good news with you. And they go, just get to the bottom line. I know you're about to drop a bomb on us. You know, we're not stupid. Yeah. So hard before you jump right in and say, Listen, I got some, I got some good news and some bad. Let me share the bad news first. Because see, that makes you believable. Now they go, okay, you're being real with us. Then I get to close the meeting with, now the good news is, you know, we're our our numbers are up or whatever. So uh hard before easy. Number, number two, big picture before smaller details. So when they are stressed and we are all anxious, perhaps. I think if we share details right away, they can get lost in the in the details.

Tim Newman:

Right.

SPEAKER_00:

But if I share, if I can put it this way, the box top and then share how their puzzle piece fits into the puzzle, they need to see the box top. Here's the big picture. We're still working toward our mission, we're still on track. Here's what quarter four looks like. Now, Josh, I need this puzzle piece to be played by you. Need you, buddy. Let's do it. Jessica, need you to play your puzzle piece. So that's another big one. It's just um, yeah, it's just uh necessary. So I guess all that to say, let me just stop because I'm taking too long here. I need to step into their shoes. Right. Uh, not how I want to communicate or how frustrated I am as the boss, but I need to I need to keep it real and uh and and and and disclose things in that in that fashion.

Tim Newman:

Yeah. I I I love the puzzle analogy because it's it really does illustrate that from that bigger picture. You know, for one of the things for me though is leaders also have to admit they they're not right. Or if you tell them you're gonna do something, either if you don't do it, just say you didn't do it. Or if you if you don't know the answer, just say you didn't answer, because you know for me, you know, especially you know, from from the professor perspective, if they know right away. If I if I tell them I'm gonna do something and I don't do it and they call me on it, I better just say, you know what, I didn't do it, send me a reminder of this, or shoot me an email and I'll I'll give back whatever it is. But don't say don't say you did something if you didn't do it. Don't give it an answer that's not that you don't know to be true, because that is that is just so detrimental to everything that you're trying to accomplish.

SPEAKER_00:

And number one on that is trust. You're right. It breaks trust. So this is a history illustration, but I think you're spot on. Uh probably one of the worst mistakes that John F. Kennedy made more than 60 years ago was the Bay of Pigs fiasco. Uh we've read it in our history books, a horrible thing down in down in Cuba. Well, right afterwards, his popularity went up. In fact, he was baffled. He said, It's amazing. The more mistakes I make, the more they like me. Well, here's what happened that made people like him. He owned it. As soon as that thing happened, he didn't blame Congress, he didn't blame his cabinet, he didn't blame the minister, the uh defense secretary. He said, This was on me. I pulled, I made this decision and I own it, and it's never going to happen again. Well, people love that honesty. Like you just said, and when you own it and say, listen, that's my bad. I'm so sorry I didn't follow through on that to a Gen Zer, they go, Okay, I don't need you to be perfect, but I do need you to be real. So I actually had a Gen Zer say to me, Dr. Tim, the only thing worse than being uncool is being unreal. Isn't that a great comment?

Tim Newman:

That's that's that's phenomenal. But it's I mean, it's it's true.

SPEAKER_00:

That was that was a college thing. Yeah. Yeah.

Tim Newman:

It kind of makes you go, yeah, yeah, you're right. And again, I'm I I'm an exer and I'm kind of like you in the sense that you know just put your head down, do what you got to do. And you know, people ask me how things are going all the time. I said, and I said my response is nobody's told me otherwise, so things are great. And and and so it's it's but it's the exact opposite of Gen Z. Yeah. It's it's that mindset. Nobody's told me otherwise, so so we're sailing on our own.

SPEAKER_00:

Yes. Yep.

Tim Newman:

So what what's a misc uh a misconception from a Gen Z perspective in terms of communicating with an authority figure? Because again, going back to one of the things that you said earlier, that uh somebody 15 or older is not hasn't communicated with a Gen Z in the workplace.

SPEAKER_00:

It baffles me. Yeah. Well, I do think what must be happening, this is just my my gut, not my data, is I think that we can be so different between age 50 and age 22 that we just seek out our own kind. We meet at the water cooler with other 50-year-olds who think like us, talk like us, vote like us. And I don't seek out that Gen Z who seems like they're from another country, you know, let's be honest. But see, you taught them in a college class. So you were with these different 20-somethings every every day or every week, anyway. So I feel like we need to seek out those that are unlike us, and we need to build trust. So the big misconception you just asked about is that we assume since we got the badge on, we're the leader, that they'll trust us in our leadership. Trust must be earned. And it's earned through time and it's earned through credibility, making good decisions, follow through, keeping your promises, those kinds of things. Um, so yeah, I feel like that's but I here's another misconception. I think very many of us, I'm gonna put us in the same category, Tim, that are over 40, just look at Gen Z on the surface and go, man, they don't want to work. They don't really want to work. You know, they're they're they're they seem lazy and they leave right at five and not a minute later, like I want to get out of here as soon as I can. But you've heard me say this, I think, on another podcast.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

When I met with my focus groups, I started hearing another story. They said, Oh no, we want to work. We want to work about with something we're passionate about.

SPEAKER_01:

Right.

SPEAKER_00:

But one young lady said to me, Tim, can I, Dr. Tim, she said, can I tell you why I leave right at five? I said, Yeah. She said, I leave right at five because I have to run over to another job. I don't make enough money at this first job to pay the bills here in LA. And then after that second job, I have to rush over to take care of my mother who has stage four cancer. So suddenly I'm realizing when I hear that, oh, she does work actually, maybe better than I do. But I can't stop stereotyping and maybe listen a little bit and find out maybe there's a great human being inside that 22 year old. Body that I need to get to know and trust. And who knows, maybe they'll be leading the organization one day when it's all said and done.

Tim Newman:

Yeah, and I think that comes back down to just having informal conversations.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, it does.

Tim Newman:

It used to be called man management by walking around. And I'm not talking about that. But but just you know what? What's going on? What's going on with you? And and they'll if you start the conversation, they'll they'll tell you what's going on. They'll tell you about themselves. Uh and you know it it's uh get get both I think both sides need to get over whatever it is and just start the conversation.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, no doubt.

Tim Newman:

And then it rolls.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

Tim Newman:

Yeah. So what what what does confident communication look like for somebody who's a Gen Z? Because they communicate again very different differently than we do.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, yeah. Well, I have found in many cases we need to teach soft skills to them. You talked about that as you opened the podcast. Interpersonal skills were rarely developed on a screen during the pandemic. They fell behind by about two years. The average this is data, not insults. No, this is it.

Tim Newman:

Real.

SPEAKER_00:

So so cognitively advanced, they're smart as a whip, but socially and emotionally behind. So we're gonna have to build those soft skills intentionally into their life. And by the way, it may be as simple as I want you to look me in the eye when you talk to me. I want you to shake my hand when you walk through that door, and I'll shake yours. And I'm gonna treat you with respect, and I expect you to treat me with respect. Those are fundamentals, but we may have to teach them because they're not automatically happening. Yeah.

Tim Newman:

Yeah, the the probably probably the last two years that I was teaching, I almost had to stop teaching my content area and was almost strictly focusing on on the soft skills. Because if you it doesn't matter what you know, if you can't communicate, if you if you can't have a conversation with somebody, it it just doesn't really matter.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, you're absolutely right. Yeah. So so let me share one thing about that. Okay. Uh as an older guy, I have had to learn what Charles Duhig taught years years ago, that when you're interacting with someone, you're having a conversation, or you're communicating to them as an audience, you need to know what kind of conversation they need to have. Yes. It's either a practical conversation, a social conversation, or an emotional conversation. And here's how he defines that. A practical conversation commonly happens at work. It's just information. We need to transfer some information, not a lot of emotion. Here's some facts, here's the deadline, here's the date it's due, et cetera. That's practical. And you and I, as older guys, just got used to a lot of practical, not much emotion. Let's just get the job done. Very often a younger team member might want to have a social conversation. So maybe they want to get into last weekend's party they went to. And I don't mean to stereotype, but let's just say that's the topic. I need to stop correcting that it was the 15th, not the 16th, or something like that. That doesn't matter.

Tim Newman:

Doesn't matter, right?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, they're just trying to share a social, just enjoy it with them, laugh with them, affirm them, say, I'm so glad you got some refreshment time. But here's the clincher. I find that many times a Gen Z or one needs needs to have an emotional conversation where it's very emotional, and they start in with facts or data, but it's not about data at all. They're feeling inadequate, maybe, or they're feeling I didn't measure up or something. And I need to recognize that and affirm what I can. So I'm going to give a very personal illustration, Tim, on this one. I missed it with my own young adult daughter. Bethany's in her 30s, and she's a wonderful counselor down in Orlando, Florida. Uh, just a very good therapist. Um she is married to Ben, but they're not parents yet. So she and I are in the car alone together, just driving one day, just happened to have some time together. She goes, Dad, I got a question for you. I'm ready for a practical conversation at this point, by the way. And it wasn't so Bethany goes, Dad, if you were to go see a counselor about a parenting issue, would you rather go see a counselor that was a parent or go to see one that maybe wasn't a parent, but they'd done all their research and they were ready to go. Thinking I was having a practical conversation.

Tim Newman:

I know what you said. I bet I know what you said.

SPEAKER_00:

I said, Well, all things being equal, I think I'd go to one that was actually a parent. So they were their feet, they go, Oh, I've been through the same thing, you know. Well, Bethany was quiet and goes, okay, didn't really say much the rest of the drive. We got home, she hopped out of the car, went into the home first. I pulled the car in the garage. But when I walked inside, I could not find her. And when I walked upstairs, I looked in her room, and she tears were just coming down her cheeks. I did not realize. I had just unaffirmed her. I had said, Bethany, I wouldn't choose you, that's for sure. I'd choose somebody that had some credibility. And I just realized, holy moly, I she was having, she was needing dad to say, Bethany, you're adequate. I'd go see you. Um I'll stop there, but I'm just saying leaders need to know what communication is needed in the moment and lead before they lead. Yeah.

Tim Newman:

It's I I'm sorry you I'm sorry you did that, but I've done this I've done very similar. I I grew up with three brothers. So I grew up, I mean, male dominated, my mom is and was a saint. I'm married, and I've got two daughters. And I the amount of times I've said things and I've gotten the look, why would you say that?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

Tim Newman:

But it's it is what it is. And and we learn from and the key is to learn, hope the audience gets it. The key is to learn from that. Yes. Um and and in whatever situation it is, maybe you before you respond, you ask a question to to get some clarity or whatever it is, but learn from the from those things, just like we're asking our students to do the same thing.

SPEAKER_00:

Yes, absolutely. No doubt about it.

Tim Newman:

So Tim, where where can people find uh find you to work with you, find out what's going on with Gen Z and get more information?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, thanks for asking, Tim. It's been a great conversation. Well, probably the easiest way to find me in a bunch of free stuff is my own website, Timelmore.com, Timelmore.com. Uh Growing Leaders is out there. It's a maxwell nonprofit that I started uh over 20 years ago. You could get curriculum for teaching soft skills to young people. But um I would say too, yeah, I would love to help with Gen Z if you've got Gen Z and you're managing it uh somewhere, somehow. Uh my book is called The Future Begins with Z. Nine Strategies to Let It Lead Generation Z as they disrupt the workplace. And it's on Amazon or or or anywhere good books are sold. But um that might be a good guidebook for you to use just to make sure you're getting it right along the way.

Tim Newman:

Tim, it's a great, it's a great guidebook. It's a great guidebook. I yeah. I'll just be honest with you. Not only did I read the book um when we went to see the kids for Thanksgiving, we listened to the book all the way back from Thanksgiving, too. So um it's there there's there's so much gold in there, so so many good good ideas and and value. Can't thank you enough for number one for writing the book, but I also can't thank you enough for for spending some time with us and and and g giving us the the this information that hopefully people can go and start to do and change things and lead Gen Z better starting today, not next week, not tomorrow, but today. That's start happening today.

SPEAKER_00:

Absolutely. I'm with you all the way. They will make us better leaders if we'll let them. Thanks, Tim. I appreciate it.

Tim Newman:

Tim, again, thanks so much. Take care, and we'll talk to you soon. Be sure to visit speakingwithconfidence podcast.com to get your free ebook, Top 21 Challenges for Public Speakers, Now to Overcome. You can also register for the forum for public speaking. Always remember your voice has a power changer. We'll talk to you next time.

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Tim Newman

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