Speaking With Confidence

How to Win Over Any Audience: Lessons in Stage Confidence and Storytelling from Magician Tom Elliott

• Tim Newman • Season 1 • Episode 97

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Have you ever wondered how seasoned performers capture and hold the attention of even the most distracted or reluctant audiences? On today’s episode of Speaking With Confidence, we answer that question and dig deep into what it really takes to build confidence, adapt on the fly, and show up authentically in every speaking situation—whether it’s a children’s birthday party, a raucous holiday park, or a high-stakes corporate keynote.

I’m Tim Newman, your host and recovering college professor turned communication coach, and I’m thrilled to share this episode with you because it offers a fresh perspective on stage presence, storytelling, and handling those inevitable moments when things don’t go as planned.

Joining me today is Tom Elliott, corporate event host, comedy magician, and storytelling coach, who brings a remarkable blend of entertainment expertise to the world of professional communication. Tom has performed across the UK for audiences that often weren’t there to see him, which has made him a master at winning over even the toughest crowds. His journey from performing magic and ventriloquism at children’s parties, to holiday parks and eventually the corporate world, is not only fascinating but full of practical lessons for anyone looking to build their influence through communication.

You’ll also hear us dig into:

  • Tom’s origins in magic, ventriloquism, and the lessons learned from children’s parties and holiday park gigs
  • Why corporate and holiday park audiences are worlds apart—and how to adjust your approach for each
  • How to manage failing moments on stage and use them to grow (including both of our worst stories)
  • The power of practicing in public, trying new material, and being willing to fail to get better
  • What it really takes to grab attention in the first 30 seconds of any talk, meeting, or show
  • How to dial up your natural personality traits by 10% for stage presence and audience connection
  • The difference between internalizing your core message versus memorizing a rigid script, and how this helps you adapt with confidence
  • Why personal stories work, even for people who are nervous to use them
  • Building confidence through repeated action and practical strategies for anyone starting out (including organizing your own gigs!)

Tom also shares a free resource for anyone wanting to create a more engaging keynote, along with actionable tips you can put into practice right away.

Whether you’re a business leader, aspiring speaker, or someone who just wants to feel more at ease communicating when it counts, this episode is packed with insights, laughter, and the reassurance that failing is not the end—it's part of the path to becoming a powerful, confident communicator.

Thanks for joining us on Speaking With Confidence. Remember, your voice has the power to change the world!

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Tim Newman:

Welcome back to Speaking with Confidence, podcast that helps you build the soft skills that lead to real results. Communication, storytelling, public speaking, and showing up with confidence in every conversation that counts. I'm Tim Newman, a recovering college professor, attorney communication coach, and I'm thrilled to guide you on your journey to becoming a powerful communicator. Today's guest is Tom Elliott. He brings a truly unique blend of entertainment and expertise to the world of communication. Tom is a corporate event host and comedy magician who has performed across the United Kingdom, capturing audiences that didn't always come to see him and learning exactly how to win them over. Now, Tom takes those same skills, stage presence, confidence, and storytelling, and helps entrepreneurs and professionals step into their own spotlight. He's passionate about showing people how to internalize, not memorize, how to grab attention in those critical first 30 seconds, and how to bring authenticity to every stage or conversation. Tom, welcome to the show. I'm really looking forward to talking to you today because you've got some skills that number one that I love and that I I'm not very good at. So talking to people that that that have that is is fun for me. So welcome.

Tom Elliott:

No, Tim, it's my absolute pleasure. Thanks for thanks for having me.

Tim Newman:

You know, you you've got like I said, you've you've got uh skills that not that that I that that love that you know I can't do, but you also have a unique story. What was the first thing that kind of drew you into magic and performance?

Tom Elliott:

Sure. So it started really when I was uh I was uh early teenage years really. Um a friend of mine was doing some magic at school, uh like card tricks. And uh at the same time, um, slightly weirdly, I'd started learning ventriloquism, right? It's not something I do anymore, um, but uh I haven't done it since then really. But I I was learning it at that point just out of interest. And uh we teamed up, we became really good friends because we both connected on this kind of performing idea. Um so we became really good friends and we started doing children's parties all around kind of Gloucestershire, where I live here in the UK. And uh we weren't very good. Uh we charged £30. I'm not sure what that what that is in dollars, but it's not a lot anyway. Uh, we charged 30 quid for a an hour's kids party, and we split it between us. So it wasn't the most profitable of enterprises, but it was uh a lot of fun. Uh to be honest, it probably wasn't even worth the 30 pounds at the time. We weren't that good, but um, we had a lot of fun and it taught me a lot in those like doing a children's party is definitely a good way to learn the skills uh of how to manage a distracted crowd in particular.

Tim Newman:

Uh yeah, yeah, I'm sure. So uh but I'm I'm I'm sure that you know they they loved what whatever it was that you were doing, so you know it it's also kind of you know what lands and what doesn't, and herding cats and laughing and and that that sort of thing too.

Tom Elliott:

So kind of learn learn how to work the room absolutely we did everything from uh do you have brownies and cubs and guides and that sort of thing in the States? I'm not I'm not sure if you have them, but we did a we did a brownie camp, which effectively a ton of girls at the time, um and uh it was chaos, balloons everywhere, uh with two kind of 16-year-olds trying to hold attention. Uh it was chaos, but we learned a lot and you know it sharpened us up. I still think that I couldn't do what I do today doing corporate stuff at corporate events if I didn't have those early experiences of kids' parties.

Tim Newman:

Yes. So how how did that happen? Uh you know, how did you go from that and and comedy magician and the coaching worlds and and the and the corporate worlds all all come together because to me this is this is what really makes what you do really unique?

Tom Elliott:

Sure. So I mean opportunities just grew really. So it started doing kids' parties, and then I got invited to do uh some other things that were kind of mixed of adults and children, and then uh there came a point at which I decided I don't really want to be doing children's parties uh anymore, and that's why I decided to push the more kind of adult family oriented shows. I started doing holiday parks, I did some churches, I did do all sorts of things really, and then um just as as I grew as a performer and in what I did, uh other opportunities came. And then in the last few years, kind of specializing, kind of going all in on the corporate. Um, I've tried the comedy club, very different vibe to uh the kids' party and the holiday park. Holiday parks are interesting though because again, people aren't there to see you. They've come for a holiday, they've come to have a drink, get some chips. Uh, and the worst thing of all about holiday park is that you follow three hours of bingo dancing, um Billy the Bear, whatever it is, their mascot dancing around, and then you're expected to come on and hold the crowd at nine o'clock at night when it's five hours past the kids' bedtime. Yeah, no, I get it. It's just chaos.

Tim Newman:

So, what did you learn about the holiday park? Because because again, to me, that it it's so fascinating and interesting because like you said, it's the the parents are running around and they've got the kids, like you said, past the bedtime. I know what kids are like when they're cranky and it's past bedtime. How did you what did you learn and how did you manage that?

Tom Elliott:

Yeah, I mean, so you you the the big the big thing really is learning how to capture attention. So very much it was how how do I start my show? There are certain routines in my show that just don't work in a holiday park environment because they're built for um they're built for an engaged audience. That if I'm trying to create some sort of atmosphere, unless it's the chaotic sort of atmosphere, then it it's not gonna work. So I found straight away that a holiday park needs to be um short, choppy, fast-paced, high energy, go, go, go, go, go, uh, the whole way through. You you can't build any sort of um arc of atmosphere uh in a holiday park show. Uh whereas in a theatre you can. Um so I I I was trying to do one of my favorite comics over here in the UK is a guy called Joe Pasquale. And uh he's kind of ridiculous sense of humor, like really silly in his style. Uh, but one thing I love about Joe is that you'd be laugh, laugh, laugh, laugh, laugh, and then towards the end of his show, about 40 minutes in, which is strategic because about 40 minutes in is when an audience starts to kind of dip in their engagement. Right. Uh he changes things up and he creates this like soft atmosphere. He has like piano music in the background, and he's still telling jokes, he's still making people laugh, but in a slightly almost atmospheric way. And it was so clever because it built like an arc into the show, uh, in the high energy, fast paced, big laughs, big laughs, and then all of a sudden he's telling a mock story which isn't big laughs, but it's chuckles and it's funny, and there's piano music in the background, and and then he'll finish big again, but it creates an atmosphere. You can't do that in a holiday park. I tried to emulate it, and in the holiday park it just failed. In fact, I remember a heckle of a probably slightly drunk dad in the room going, get on with it, Tom. Because it it got boring in a holiday park. It doesn't, it doesn't work in that setting. Right.

Tim Newman:

So so how long is a set in in a holiday park?

Tom Elliott:

So 45 minutes, which is a long set when Wow at nine o'clock at night, when you've got families and there's a and you've got um the game machines, gambling machines in the background, no no no and the pool cues going off and the bar being you're like it's it's a it's a horrible gig, but it taught me a lot.

Tim Newman:

When you did like regular stand-up, you know, to you know, to me, you comedians are are the to me some of the some of the best communicators and storytellers because you know that's that's really all they're doing, and and they're telling it in a way to to get a response, a laugh, a laugh response out of you. But you know, they also really do kind of practice the same way we teach people to practice. But you know, what what did you learn from from doing stand-up?

Tom Elliott:

I think with with stand-up, you you learn well, the two things. You learn to uh well, not everybody, but 90% of comedians would I would say uh you learn to be yourself on stage but in a funny and engaging way. Um there are obviously there are character acts which make a lot of sense. And in and in some ways everybody's got a stage persona, but um what I what I've tried to do is be myself on stage but turned up 10%. So I can go into more detail in that in a minute. The second one is you learn how to read a room, you learn very quickly how to adapt to what that audience uh works. The only way you learn comedy is by failure in public, and uh you have to learn to be happy failing in public and dying a miserable death on stage uh in front of everybody. And so the you have to go through that, and and what you let you learn to adapt kind of on the fly, or you look like in the moment, you learn to sense what an all where where an audience is behind you and where it's backing off. Um and and you learn to adapt accordingly, and you you think, oh, if I engage with that group, they'll they'll come towards me, but actually there comes a point which I need to ignore the chaos over here because it's disruptive and or they're it they're egging it on too much. Or so you learn, yeah, you learn to adapt in the room.

Tim Newman:

You know, it's it again, it's it it's funny because you know you could do let's just say you've got a 30-minute set, first 10 minutes you could do great, and then five minutes in you could say something that's not funny, and you lose the audience, and you still got you know 15 more minutes left that you gotta get them back. You gotta get them back as quickly as you can. Um otherwise that's a that's a long 15 minutes.

Tom Elliott:

Absolutely. So I I always think that the the energy you bring to an audience is the energy that they give back to you. Um so uh I'm I'm quite high energy in in the way that I present on stage. Uh I'm quite uh positive, uh kind of cheerful in in my approach. Uh so I've been introduced before though by uh I don't know managing director who's completely the opposite, and it and it's a bit of a nightmare when that happens. In fact, now I have my own voiceover to bring me on. Because when you get a low-energy person introducing a high, the audience were completely, it was a corporate event, everybody's chatting, I'm stood in the wing, he's reading through three pages of a scripted welcome speech, uh in a kind of monotone voice, and I'm there going, Oh, oh my days. And uh because I had to run on from there and completely check, but of course the audience were already lost, they were already chatting away. Right. Now, thankfully, with a bit of years of experience, it doesn't phase me. I I went on stage with my energy, I did what I needed to do, and the audience were with me with within a few minutes, um within a few seconds, even. Uh but but it's hard because you you have to you you only know that, and you can only do it by experiencing the the the death of not being able to do it.

Tim Newman:

Right. And you know, to tell me if I'm wrong here, you know, that that's really no different than standing up on stage and giving a keynote. Right?

Tom Elliott:

No, not at all.

Tim Newman:

You know, you're because you you know, go ahead, Tom.

Tom Elliott:

Sorry, g if if anything, giving a keynote is slightly harder because at least with comedy, uh you've got a audible reaction and a visible reaction from the audience that uh whether you've succeeded or whether you've failed, as in, did they laugh? Yes, great, it's gone well. Did they not? When you're giving a keynote, you haven't always got that same level of uh clarity as to what the audience is thinking. It uh it can be quite particularly in a kind of formal keynote, uh if you tell a funny story, then great, you've got that instant reaction. But if you're going in straight with a with with a kind of teaching mentality, it's it's it's very hard for people to know whether that audience is fully engaged or not. So there are there are ways of doing it, but uh I'd say some ways it's harder giving a keynote because you haven't got that instant recognition of what you're doing.

Tim Newman:

Yeah, and you know, j just to you know, kind of how I think about that, the the coach I'm working with right now, you know, he's we're working on me giving him three minute stories, right? Right just three minute stories that I could input, you know, a keynote here, you know, presentation of your what whatever it is. And I sent him one about two weeks ago that I thought was hilarious because I I I use self-deprecating humor, I I use myself as as a punchline, those types of things. And he he's British. And he sent it back to me, he said, Tim, this doesn't make any sense. And I was like, wow. Yeah, I was like, I wow, that that's bizarre. You don't know about this, you don't but and it got me thinking because you know, when you're when you're doing a key night or you're doing a presentation, you you don't truly know everybody that's in there. But if if somebody of of his stature doesn't understand what I'm talking about, more likely than not the audience isn't gonna know, and I've got to I've got to redo or rethink either the story or the terminology, or is this just get rid of that story altogether?

Tom Elliott:

Yeah. But you you'll only ever know that by giving it a shot. Uh and the the odd thing about it is that you can do that one night and it can go down a storm. You can do it the next night and it dies completely. Uh the the old British comedian Ken Dodd, uh, do you do you remember, do you do you know or remember Ken Dodd?

Tim Newman:

No.

Tom Elliott:

No, so uh, but he he used to keep a what he called a giggle map, and he used to map where his jokes, and he he's known for going on for hours. He he used to do theatres and they'd go on for three or four hours over the the time given because he just end just endless jokes and he was known for it. And uh, but he he'd keep a giggle map and he'd literally make note of where each of his jokes, he was a bit of a one-liner kind of guy, where each of his jokes worked and where they didn't. So he'd know that in up the north end of the country, he'd know that these jokes work but these don't, and down south he'd know that these jokes work, but these don't. And he was uh, and it's yeah, it's known that he kept that map of all of his material and where it worked and where it didn't. Because you're right, people from different backgrounds, different places in the country or even in the world understand differently and don't get references that perhaps you're familiar with.

Tim Newman:

Yeah, that that that's brilliant. The the the giggle map. Um I'm sorry, well, it's a good it's a Google map, but but for laughing, you know you know you know, and that that that that's it's genius, though, but but that's what you have to do sometimes. Again, you we we talk about knowing your audience, uh how important knowing your audience is, and and and that's that's really the should be the the the sole focus of of whatever it is, whether it's just whether it's stand up, whether it's a holiday park, whether it's a corporate event, whether it's a keynote, whether it's a team meeting, doesn't really matter where it is, that audience should be the number one focus of everything that that you're doing and saying.

Tom Elliott:

Yeah, a hundred percent. Um a corporate audience is very different to a holiday park audience. A corporate the and the the here's the big factor that I find makes a lot of difference is has an audience come to see you or have they come for another reason? That their motive for coming to the event changes the game. I've got um I know a couple of uh people here that are kind of celebrity well-known comedians, and they and they've said that it in some ways it gets easier when you're a well-known comedian because people have come, they've paid good money because they know that they like you and your sense of humour. So in some ways it's easier, you've got nothing to prove. Uh whereas a new person or or someone that's not known, someone that doesn't have a big profile, or or if they're doing an event where the audience don't know who they are, you you're almost having to win that audience over every time that you do an event. Uh but the the flip side of that is that when a well-known comedian tries new material, they don't really know if it works or not, because they're gonna get a laugh anyway. Because that new audience, that so that audience that knows them will find them funny, whatever they say. And so it can be uh it can be a false flag for them because it can make them think that a joke works, and then they take it to a a new audience somewhere and realize, oh, it it didn't work. So a lot of them in the UK uh turn up at comedy clubs unannounced just so they can perform to an audience that doesn't necessarily know them and their comedy, uh, because they get a more realistic reaction then to the new jokes.

Tim Newman:

And that's again, that that goes back to practice, practicing your craft because you communication public speaking is a craft. You have you have to you have to do it, you have to practice it, you have to do those types of things. And and I love that whole idea of of showing up unexpected and um trying new things just to sit just to see if it works.

Tom Elliott:

Yeah. And trying new things. I was challenged, there's a guy here called Milton Jones, who's a well-known comic, and he challenged me, he said, Tom, try and get 10% of new material in every event that you do. Uh, because he said the the the the very fact that you're forcing yourself to create new material and put new stuff out there and uh and step outside your comfort zone and just give I don't know 10 minutes of a show of the is of material that you've not done before and you're not sure how it's gonna go, uh will stretch you beyond what you need. So you're constantly on edge and you're constantly thinking, uh, how can I make this better and and willing to fail as well.

Tim Newman:

Right. That's talk a little bit about that. That whole idea of willing to fail. I I again that I I love that whole idea. That the the idea that willing to fail, you you have to put yourself out there and be willing for it to not work. That's awesome.

Tom Elliott:

Sure. There are ways, there are ways of doing it. So uh you first of all, mindset-wise, you have to be comfortable with I have to go and do this. The only way to figure out if this is going to be good is to go and do it. And and I always say to myself that I know for sure, pretty much 99% sure, that the first version of an idea will never work, but I have to do it before the good ideas come. So uh, and it it's a painful reality because you're you're there generating this first idea, and in the moment you're thinking, oh, that that'll work, that will work. And then you take it to stage, but 99% of the time what you thought would work in that first idea never works, it normally gets chucked. Uh, and so it's it's an interesting one because you think it's gonna work, but then you also know that it's probably not gonna work because it's the first time, it's the first idea. It's the third or fourth idea that comes that works, or maybe even the tenth idea, 11th idea. But you'll never get there unless you go through that first idea, and so you have to keep pushing through this idea of being kind of forced to fail in public. The way I do it, there's two ways I do it. Number one, there are there are really important gigs, and there are gigs that I can get away with failing a little bit more than as in, I don't really want to fail at a corporate event. They've paid good money for me to be there. It's probably not the space for me to be trying new stuff. But if I if I do the odd, I don't know, it might be a comedy club, uh, there's not a lot of pressure on me to succeed. It's good as I do, but it's there's not loads of pressure. Um, so I can try stuff. The other way of doing it, if you do want to try new material in a high-stakes environment, is to try and sandwich the new piece in between two solid pieces that you know work well. Uh and and it's it's a little bit trickier for a keynote speaker to do this because obviously you're you're taking the audience on a journey. But for me, what that looks like is I've got two tricks that I know work really well, and I've got a new trick that I've never done before, uh, with new jokes I've never done before. What I'll do is I'll stick that new piece in between these two solid pieces. So that means that if all goes wrong, if it all goes wrong, I can pull the audience back. Uh I can build them up here, I can then dip in this bit if it doesn't go very well, but then I can win them back in this piece here. Um and so I've that's enabled me to try the new material uh and almost with a minimal viable product type approach. Right. Don't make the material, don't do 10 minutes of new material, do a two-minute version of it, and then expand it gradually.

Tim Newman:

Yeah, and and and I like like the whole idea of if it's not working, you can pull out and move on to something that you know is gonna work, you know, almost immediately. That that's again, that's that's another another great strategy.

Tom Elliott:

Because the audience won't then remember the bit that failed, they'll only remember the bits either side. Uh and so it the trickier ones, particularly for me, and again, not so much, although the keynote speaker would it would apply to a keynote speaker if you're finished if you're starting and finishing on a story uh that you need to lend. Uh but the trickiest ones to to try in or to try other my opening routine and my finale. Because if if you mess up the beginning and if you mess up the end, you're gonna have a difficult show. Or or the beginning more than more so than the end. If you mess up the end, you you might still be in with a chance of the audience enjoying the rest of the show. But uh the beginning particularly is really hard because if you don't get a good if you don't get off to a good start, you've lost the audience entirely.

Tim Newman:

Yeah, so let's talk about the beginning and and that that first 30 seconds um that that is is critical for really for doesn't matter what what it is, what whether it's stand-up, whether it's at a team meeting, a keynote, doesn't really matter what it is, that 30 first 30 seconds that that you're that that you start is critical. Um tell me what what what you do and and how you teach and what what you teach people to do in that first 30 seconds.

Tom Elliott:

Sure. So if you think about what you what you need to achieve in that first 30 seconds, is you want to capture their attention and you want to share something about who you are so that the audience go, I like him. Uh and so there's a few things. First of all, the energy that you bring to an audience is the energy they give back to you. So if you are a low energy speaker, as in quite formal, or then you need to think really hard about how you're gonna capture the audience. There's nothing wrong with that. If that's who you are, then great. But you need to think about okay, so I'm quite a low energy speaker. How am I gonna make sure that this audience is captivated by what I do? Um, for me, it's a little bit easier. I'm high energy, so I make sure that my opening piece is big. Uh, and so as I said, I I have um a voiceover that brings me on now, and it and it's designed to a get a laugh before I've come on stage because I want the audience to have that in their minds. Uh, this is gonna be funny, and then it builds them up to a big or a kind of big welcome. I run onto stage and I swallow a balloon, okay? Uh uh an inflated modeling balloon. And so the reason for that, and I know I know keynote speakers aren't going to start swallowing balloons at the beginning of the keynote, but hear me out. Um, what that does, it does a few things, it it establishes me as high energy. So the audience is going, oh, like there's something happening in the room. So I I then run onto stage, uh, I've made them laugh already because the voiceover itself is funny, and then I swallow a balloon. It's quite impressive, it looks impressive, it's visually impressive, uh, and it's slightly gross, slightly um uh but but also it's it's impressive, it gets a bit of a laugh or it gets reaction at most at best. Um what that does by that point, I've got their attention. If if that's all I've done, if it all goes downhill from here, I've I've got their attention in those first 30 seconds, and they've made that decision whether they like me or not. What this translates like when I teach people to in particular in keynote, you want to be thinking about what what is it about your characteristics, about who you are, that you wanna that you want the audience to connect with. So I always say to people, what what compliments were you given when about your character, about your character or your characteristics when you were a kid? So people used to say to me, and they still do, they say, Tom, uh you're quite a kind of cheerful person, and uh you're always so I remember going to uh a like having sleepovers as with my mates as uh when I was a young person, and I'd wake up in the morning and I'd be buzzing, and they like I'd be like I am now at seven o'clock in the morning, and they'd be like, Tom, like how are you so like full of life at 7 a.m.? Uh and and so I've identified that as a bit of a characteristic. I'm high energy, quite cheerful, quite optimistic. So I work that in. And so if I was to ask an or one of some of your listeners or you, what's the characteristics? When you go onto stage, what you want to do is take that characteristic and just turn it up by 10%. Uh and what that enables you to do is it brings all the characteristics that you want that audience to connect with, it brings all those things that people like about you, uh, but it conveys it to the whole audience, which means you've done two things. You've uh got them to like you, but also you've uh you've built that rapport, you've kept as in they've connected in with you. Uh but you're being authentic, uh, you're not trying to be someone else, you're not being this weird stage persona version of you. You're being yourself, but you've just amplified it for the size of the audience that's there.

Tim Newman:

Yeah, that that is that's huge. And and I think the the uh the idea that you uh you you take something that you know is you're like you said, a characteristic of you that you know that people like and using that as opposed to um trying to figure out whatever whatever it is for each individual audience. You know, and I'm I'm a lot like you. I'm not nearly as high energy as you, but yeah, I like I like to I like to have fun, right? Whatever whatever it is that we're doing, we're we're we're gonna have fun, we're gonna laugh, and most of the time we're gonna have have fun and laugh at me. Um and and and again, that for me that that builds the credibility that, okay, he's okay with what whatever it is that he does. Like, you know, when we came on here, I said if I say it, I say it, it is what it is, and we move on, right? So, like for example, I've said my own website wrong probably a dozen times, as as as many times as I've done this podcast, I've said my own website wrong a dozen times. I just kind of laugh it off and and and fix it. But you know, it's okay to make those mistakes, it's okay to laugh at yourself, and we're and we're going to have fun doing it and learn and learn. And I I think if if people could get out of their heads, right? Get out of that mindset of people are judging them or people are thinking about them, or I'm afraid to mess up, well, guess what? You you are gonna mess up.

Tom Elliott:

Yeah, it's gonna let it go. Yeah, again, it goes that it goes back, doesn't it, to that willingness to fail. And that uh if you can be as comfortable, the aim of the game, I think, is that if you can be as comfortable on stage in front of a hundred people as you are when you're talking to family members or friends, and you're just having that social conversation, if you can get to that place when where you're 90% as relaxed as you are in in a social circumstance, then that's a really good place to be. Obviously, a little bit of nerves, a little bit of uh kind of heightened awareness is good because that it keeps you on on form. Um but ultimately the audiences need to see that confidence in you in order to then uh engage and listen to what you've got to say. That's what stage presence is ultimately.

Tim Newman:

Yes, yeah, you you're absolutely right. But but let's let's talk about fail moments because again, we we've all had them. Um I don't know if I told you this, but I I've said before that the very first time I was had to speak in front of a group of people, I I l I threw up. I I mean I literally threw up. I it wasn't thinking about the I mean it it it it it actually happened. And so now then I went on to be to to have a career where I talk in front of people all the time. So so having those fail moments, it's just a it's a blip, it's a moment. It's a whatever it's not your life, it's not who you are, it's not your career. It's just it's some something happened. How about you? What what what what's your biggest fail moment?

Tom Elliott:

Well, so I've I've had a few. Um so but let me let's go back to the holiday park scenario. Uh a few years ago, I'd I'd done a season of holiday parks. I don't, I don't, I did quite a few of them. Um there was an agent that I'd had, and uh for some reason it was just I was the thing at the time in terms of holiday park. I've done quite a few and I did it all the way through kind of the summer season when holiday parks were packed and jammed. They weren't my favourite, uh, but I did them anyway. And uh as I said, I they sharpened me up, uh they sharpened my act quite a lot. But then I did one, so I'd been to this one particular holiday park, it was a private holiday park, and I'd been to this one about three or four times throughout the whole summer and had reasonable gigs there. I I I'd adapted at this point and I'd I'd learnt to put on a show that worked. Um, and then I had a final booking at that holiday park that was outside of their summer season, and so I I turned up in the late September, and uh I it had gone from this kind of busy, thriving, loud holiday park event to what then was in the same in the very same room that I was before, but about 50 people. Uh but it was before it was like 200. Now it was we're about 40, 50 people, most of which were kind of older couples who might own a caravan for their retirement, uh, and and then a very young family with like baby, right? And I turned up, nine o'clock at night, barely anybody in the room, the poor old red coat or whatever you the guys before me that were on were up and doing all the dancing, putting all their energy into it with very little comeback. I so I went on, did my show, and I did all the things that in every other gig go down a storm. Big laughs. Uh I did all these little gags that I knew worked. I went in with full confidence. I went on with my full high energy, hey, moment. Uh, did all the stuff that I knew worked and that I tried and tested, didn't get anything. It was like silent response. In fact, there were a few like single-handed claps. Oh my god. You know, that's awkward, don't you? Yeah. And then, so it was a 40, I'd been contracted for 45 minutes, and from the minute I stepped on stage, there was no response whatsoever. And this is the one time when the energy you bring and the audience return was not the case. Uh, normally that works. It did not work this time. They sat and they smiled. Um, in my nervousness, there were two things I did wrong. I started to speed up, and so that 45 minutes was getting, I was approaching the end of my show, but it had been like it was nowhere near. So already I'm thinking, oh man, we're only 20 minutes in. Uh oh boy. And I'm getting towards the end. Uh and then other things happened in that you start for so the one rule of what I do is you never ask for volunteers because nobody's gonna volunteer to be a participant on a comedy act. And I started to ask people if they would join me on stage. You can tell I was desperate, and um it they said no, it just spiraled into this awkwardness after awkwardness, and I'm thinking I really need to to get off, and I really need to wrap this up. Um towards the end of the show, I'm just coming towards the end, and the young family in front of me got up and left. And of course, because it because it was quiet, everybody watched as they left the room, and their eyes followed this family as they left the venue midway to a show. Um and then I finished and I went off stage and uh I went into the dressing room, I say dressing room, it was a cupboard. Um, I went into the cupboard and I just laughed because I I've done it before, I've been here before, I failed before, I just laughed. Uh the funny thing about it is uh I then got into my car and I put a a photo on my Facebook, uh my personal Facebook, um and just outlined some of the horror story that had just happened. Uh and it was about a three-hour drive home, and uh I had all I arrived home to all these messages from friends going, Are you okay? Are you doing okay? Like, out of concern for my mental health having having had this disaster of a gig. And I I laughed back and I said, Yeah, of course I am. I wouldn't be doing this job if I couldn't handle a bad gig. At the end of the day, I'm not a surgeon. Like if a comedy gig goes bad, it's not like a surgery that's gone wrong, right? So uh, you the I guess the reflection is could I have done anything? In I don't want to blame my tools, like you know, you always take responsibility and own the problem, but in many ways, I think uh it was it, it was the atmosphere was wrong. The atmosphere wasn't right. It was a it was a big room with very little people in. Um I tend to find that older audiences don't vocally respond as much as younger audiences. Um they still enjoy it quite a lot, but they don't often vocally respond in the same way that a younger audience might. Um the two things I did do wrong though, as I said, never ask for volunteers. If you're gonna engage an audience, if you're gonna have someone participate on stage, uh in a nice way, force them up. So what I normally do is I go, what's your name? Uh he says, Tim, and I go, Tim, would you join me for the next part of the show? Ladies and gentlemen, give Tim a round of applause, and Tim will come up on stage. Now I'm I'm respectful of my participants, I don't mock them or anything like that. So that might feel harsh, but what it does is it stops the awkwardness of will you help me? No. Will you help me? Yes, no, will you help me? No. Um and then the second error was that I, in my nervousness of it not working, started to speed up and speed up and speed up. The key when things aren't going well, and it's completely uh unnatural to do this, but the key when things are not going well or when you're struggling is actually to slow down.

Tim Newman:

Slow down, right?

Tom Elliott:

Uh, because it when you slow down, you portray more confidence. And as you portray more confidence, the audience gets more confident and and they start to engage. But of course, it's very unnatural to do that because you're just like, I want to get I want to get to the ends. I want to get to the ends.

Tim Newman:

Get through it right, exactly. So let me ask you a kind of kind of an unrelated question, a little bit a little bit off topic. But here in the States, you know, there does seem to be a trend in comedy of doing audience work, you know. Is that something that's going on with with over there with you guys? Because to me, okay, it's funny, but again, you you need to be careful with the things that you're saying and not you know putting them down. I obviously if you're going to a comedy show, you know, you know what you're getting. But yeah, you you just don't know who you're calling on, right?

Tom Elliott:

Sure. And so um I love I love audience work. Uh and to be honest, so it depends on your persona of comedy. Um, if you are uh a controversial, edgy, uh aggressive comedian, you're gonna get the sort of audience that will push you to be more edgy and more controversial. So you have to be a bit more on your guard if you're that sort of comic. Um I'm not that sort of comic. I try and be clean and non-offensive the whole way through. It gives me more opportunities. Corporate wouldn't very rarely would a corporate want anyone that's going to be too political or controversial or whatever. Uh, and so I try and make sure that my whole show is effectively family friendly, even if it's not a family audience. Um, so I I love crowd work, uh, but but it it stems from who you are and the the sort of person you present to the audience. Just ask your question again, Tim, because that I had another point to that, but I'd forgotten the specific question you had asked.

Tim Newman:

Oh, the the whole idea of you know, when you go to a comedy show, you you uh as a as a spectator, you you know what you're gonna get. Yeah, but you you you just don't know if um you you as a comic if you could still offend somebody. I mean it could still go it could still go still go really, really bad, and that could that could be it could be detrimental to to your career at at this stage. You know, if you if you say the wrong thing or you call out on the wrong person and you know it it it could uh to to me uh to me the the negatives far outweigh the positives in some of the some of the people that are that are doing that uh that that audience work. So some of them, like I don't want to call it call it call out anybody's names, but they're they're fun. It's it's not it there's nothing bad about it, right? It's you know you're just you're just having fun. But some of it gets pretty pretty really edgy.

Tom Elliott:

Yeah, absolutely. In fact, there's a there's a comedian that I'm following on Facebook um at the moment, and I am fascinated in that he is probably as edgy as you can be, I would say at points, verging on full-on kind of even like racism and and things, which I I wouldn't, I'm not standing, I'm not excusing or standing up for at all. But it's interesting, 99.9% of comedians would not get away with that at all in the his this level of this particular guy. But what's interesting is that this guy has a crowd of people that should be offended by what he's saying about them, but they're not, they're loving it, they are absolutely thriving off it. Now, I don't know, I cannot tell you how he's managed to get into that space because uh the only way that works when being at that level is when you've got an audience that uh uh almost wants you to offend them. Uh but that takes years of personal brand work before you can get away with that. Uh so it's very tricky. I don't I don't know how people build these edgy personas on stage. Uh, because it's a it's a very particularly in the world we live in at the moment, which is becoming quite sensitive to those things. Right. And and that circle of sensitivity is getting wider and wider. So uh it's very tricky. But uh so I think it's safe. I I find it is safer for my own career, but it's also it's it's I'm not an edgy person anyway. Uh I don't mean to say it's who uh um good.

Tim Newman:

No, it's it's it's who you are, right?

Tom Elliott:

It's who I am because I'm not really that sort of person, so I'd never get away with it anyway. It would be out of character for me.

Tim Newman:

But so I again I don't want to get too far afield on that. It's just fascinating to me because I I I I like comedy, obviously, but but I also learn a lot from it too, right? You know, the whether it's stage presence, whether it's whether whether it's the uh timing. Watching it, I learn a lot from it. And but let's let's get let's get back to what we're really talking about. Talk a little bit about um the difference between um internalizing the message and memorizing the message and how important that is in the delivery of the overall you know uh keynote presentation set, whatever it is that we're gonna be talking about.

Tom Elliott:

Yeah, so this one I think is is a game changer if you are either just starting out in your public speaking journey, or whether you're someone that would would benefit from public speaking in terms of your own business or your a message that you have or charitable thing, if public speaking would be a an opportunity for you, but you're thinking, oh, I'm I'm too nervous about standing on stage and speaking in front of people. This is a bit of a game changer. A lot of people, when they give a speech or when they're doing anything up front, uh they will write a script and they will try and learn that script word for word, as if it's some sort of theatre play. Now, there's nothing wrong with writing a script at the beginning. The problem is, is that uh if you then become reliant on that script, you're learning it word for word. The problem is what happens when in the heat of the moment on stage, because I think you'll know this, Tim, your mind operates in a different way when you're on stage. Uh there's a it's like an it's like when you've just had too much coffee. Like there's a there's an energy in your head and you're and it's spinning in a million different ways, and it's like a a nerve, not a nervousness necessarily, but a kind of a uh an energy that you can't shift. And what that does sometimes is it can throw your thinking if you're not in control of it, particularly if you're new uh and you're and you're feeling nervous, it can throw you completely. So what happens then when you're working your way through this script and then you stumble across a line or you suddenly realize you've forgotten something and it completely throws you, and and then all you haven't got notes. So, oh um, and then you get into a mess, and then you start telling a story that wasn't meant to be till later on, and then all of a sudden you're in an absolute mess. And the worst case scenario is that the whole thing doesn't make any sense, and the audience is confused, you've lost the audience, you look nervous, and you've just had a meltdown, you then come off stage, you feel rubbish, the audience doesn't know what to say. I'm exaggerating a little bit, but you know, you know the feeling.

Tim Newman:

Right. Oh, I I do. I mean, because it's uh it's it it happens. I mean it happen I wouldn't it happens all the time, right? Yeah, to to to people e even seasoned speakers, even seasoned people that that have been doing it for a long time, that they get paid a lot of money to do it, uh understand that they they go through presentations and keynotes and these things that just that don't land, they messed up and and w whatever it is. It doesn't have to be a first timer or somebody that's new, it happens along the whole spectrum.

Tom Elliott:

Yeah, absolutely. So I always say don't by all means write a script to begin with, because writing a script is helpful for clarifying exactly what you want to say. Right. And particularly with some topics, depending on what you're speaking on, uh, language is really important. The language you use to talk about something is is key, and and in some cases, uh is is a matter of whether you offend or don't offend. Like if you're if politicians, for example, have to be mindful of language because what they say has an impact to some extent, right? Um, and people will hear that differently and respond to that differently and react. So you have to it is worthwhile writing a script purely for the basis of thinking through exactly what you're talking about and what you want to communicate, but from that point, you want to start to get rid of the script. Uh and I talk about internalize, don't memorize. Because if you then memorize that script and you you you run the risk of forgetting it and get into a mess. What you want to do is go from a script down to some phrases, down to some bullet points, down to some words, down to nothing. Uh, because we haven't scripted this conversation. If we did, it would sound very robotic and weird. Uh what we're doing is we're having a conversation about something that both of us know a lot about and we've and and experienced a lot of. In the same way, if you're giving a keynote, you you don't want to sound robotic. You want to you want to come across as if you have uh have experience in whatever you're talking about. That you're you're telling a life story. It's no different to standing in butt in front of a group of friends. Uh, I'm not sure if it was uh earlier on this podcast or whether it was on the podcast I did before this one, that I said that that the the pinnacle of where you want to get to really on stage presence, it was this podcast, um, is being in a space where you are completely okay and completely natural talking to a group of all uh a hundred people or a thousand people as you are talking to your family last night at dinner, and you're just relaying this experience that you have or this knowledge that you've learned in a way that's very natural, it's not scripted, but but neither is it not not thought through. You've you've you've got the structure, you know where you're going, you know the kind of uh elements of your talk, but it's coming across very natural rather than scripted. Yeah, and that's because if you forget something, wait, you you haven't even forgotten anything. You're just talking about what you know well, and so it just kind of comes from the heart, comes from inside of you, rather than there's nothing to forget.

Tim Newman:

Right, right. As as as again, as long as you've done the work, done the practice, done, done, done, done all those things. And and that's that's the other piece that that really does go along with that. And I and I like what you said, go from from this from the script to sentences to bullets to to phrases to nothing. That doesn't just happen, it happens because you put the work in, you put the practice in and and and and those types of things. And you know that's exactly kind of how I do it, right? So the first time I'm doing something like I told you I'm working with a coach, I script it out word for word. And I had my wife look at it because the stories are about me or the family, so she knows them. And she starts changing it, changing words because she says it's not grammatically correct. It's it's not supposed to be grammatically correct, it's it's coming from me. It's how it's I want it to sound like I'm talking, right? And that frustrates her. But then when I when I deliver it, the first couple times it's really kind of unemotional because I just want to kind of get through the words. And then once I start to get it, then start getting, you know, putting the emotions and the facial expressions and all those other things to it. But you have to to, like you said, get to the the heart. What is it that you're trying to say, and then work it out so that it actually sounds like you want it to sound to sound.

Tom Elliott:

And and I would say it's easier to adjust when it's internalized than it is when it's scripted, because uh it doesn't it doesn't have to be exactly the same words in exactly the same order uh when it's not scripted. And so therefore, if if you want to change something, if you want to add in a comment or or tweak the way you land, you can do that much easier than oh, let me go back to the script and and then I've because you've learned it and it's robotic, you run the risk of saying the old version rather than the new version. Whereas if it's internalized and you particular because what happens is when it works, when that story when the punchline of that story lands really well, you get the adrenaline kick and you go, Oh, that's how I'm gonna end it next time. And it's much more natural to end it that way next time because you felt it rather than because you've reworked a bit of script that you'd written.

Tim Newman:

Exactly, exactly. You know, and again that that's one of the other reasons why I use stories about me, because I already know the story. Yeah. I don't right. It's it's it's the terminology that that we use or that that I want to use to make it land. But I already know that because I already know it was there. I was one that it was it was me. So you don't you know, but but again, that that's what what I found with with teaching and coaching people, it especially initially they're they're so afraid to use personal stories.

Tom Elliott:

Yeah. No, you know, if you're a natural storyteller, by all means use them. Uh you because people people connect through stories, people uh you can build. I love speakers that can tell stories that one minute have you crying with laughter and the next minute they have you sobbing in tears because they've moved you, like they've taken you on that whole emotional arc. Uh and stories have the power of doing that. So particularly if you're um if you're a charity or yeah, if you're an impact uh speaker, as in your maybe you're the CEO of a charity or whatever, and you want to you want to bring people to donations uh or support or volunteer or whatever it might be, the best thing you can do is tell stories of the impact you're having, tell stories of celebration of the great things that have happened, but also then lead them to tell stories of uh of the the challenges that the people that you're working with affects, because it's that that will then really connect with people that go, ah, I've got a I've gotta give. I want to see more lives changed in that way. I want to see Exactly whereas without stories of just facts, you don't connect on the same level.

Tim Newman:

Exactly. Exactly. Tom what's one piece of advice that that you would give to somebody who who needs to build more confidence in their in their speaking? Um, because that that's that's the real key because you you're never gonna get better if you don't have confidence.

Tom Elliott:

Yeah. I would say the more you do it, the better you get. The more you do it, the more comfortable you get with failure. Uh and so uh I I know I know people that have started their keynote speaking career by literally organizing their own events. Uh and it's a if if you've got if you can't, if you're not sure about putting yourself out there to speak professionally at other events yet, then organize your own. Get start a networking gathering and you invite yourself to be the main speaker. Uh, it's a great way of building your network and and starting, but it's a great way of learning your craft of speaking as well. Um, by all means, practice it at home. Get get one talk, one keynote, uh, really well prepared, internalized, think through it, think about how it can be creative, think about keep it short. It doesn't have to be a full 45, 60-minute keynote. It can be a 10-minute, it can be a five-minute. Uh, give it a go. And what I would suggest is do the same, the same keynote to 10 different audiences uh and figure out what works and what doesn't, and then slowly begin to build it. Cut out the stuff that didn't work, add some stuff, new stuff to try.

Tim Newman:

That that that's awesome advice. I appreciate it. Where can people find you and connect with you and work with you?

Tom Elliott:

Sure. So if they go to hello tom.co.uk uh forward slash showman, uh, you can download a free resource there. It's uh it's basically a blueprint for uh creating a creative keynote that will engage and help you think about your persona, it will help you think about internalizing it, help you think about how you uh build some creativity in there, how you retain the audience. Starts to get you thinking about all these different ideas and concepts to help you deliver a really good keynote. And then, of course, if you're a little bit more established but you want some coaching in in the area, uh by all means get in touch. I'd love to have that conversation with you.

Tim Newman:

Well, that's that's awesome. I'll put those I'll put those uh links in in the show notes. But but Tom, th thank you so much for spending some time with us today. Can't tell you how much I appreciate it. It's a lot of fun. I really did enjoy talking with you.

Tom Elliott:

Uh and you, Tim. Thank you so much.

Tim Newman:

All right, buddy. Take care, we'll talk to you soon. Be sure to visit speakingwithconfidence podcast.com to get your free ebook, the top twenty-one challenges for public speakers and how they will come. You can also register for the former for public speaking. Always remember your voice is a power changing.

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Tim Newman

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