Speaking With Confidence

Empowering Introverts: Stacey Chazin on Leadership, Self-Awareness, and Authenticity

• Tim Newman • Season 1 • Episode 23

Share episode

Send us a text

Welcome to another episode of Speaking with Confidence, the podcast that empowers you to master the art of public speaking and live with genuine confidence. I'm your host, Tim Newman. In each episode, we dive into the world of effective communication, exploring strategies, sharing insights, and interviewing experts to help you unleash your potential. Don’t forget to check out our comprehensive public speaking course available at formulaforpublicspeaking.com. Today’s episode is particularly special as we venture into the realm of introversion and leadership.

 Joining us today is the incredible Stacey Chazin, a seasoned leadership coach specializing in empowering introverts. With a Master’s degree in organizational development and leadership, and certification as a Myers Briggs Type Indicator practitioner, Stacey brings a wealth of knowledge and experience to our conversation. We’ll explore her journey, insights, and strategies to help introverts thrive in both personal and professional settings.

Key Takeaways:

  1. Embracing Introversion: Stacey emphasizes the importance of understanding and embracing one's introverted nature. Introverts gain energy from solitude and small group interactions, and recognizing this can lead to more fulfilling personal and professional relationships. By being authentic and self-aware, introverts can harness their unique strengths to achieve success.
  2. Practical Strategies for Meetings: Stacey shares invaluable advice for introverts to succeed in meetings. She suggests requesting the agenda in advance, preparing one key point with supporting data for each relevant topic, and asking for opportunities to contribute in writing before or after the meeting. These strategies help introverts to feel more prepared and confident in contributing to discussions.
  3. Networking Tips for Introverts: Networking can be daunting for introverts, but Stacey provides actionable tips to make it easier. She recommends setting a goal to connect with three people per day at a conference, researching discussion points for those individuals, and using icebreakers to initiate conversation. Managing energy levels by selectively attending sessions and scheduling alone time is also crucial.
  4. Navigating Professional Challenges: The conversation addresses challenges introverts face in modern work environments, like constant connectivity and the expectation of always being available. Introverts can struggle with saying no and taking on tasks that don’t align with their skills, risking burnout. Effective communication and leveraging natural strengths like listening and reflective thinking are key to overcoming these challenges.
  5. Preparation for Negotiations: Stacey offers strategies for introverts to excel in negotiations. Preparation is vital—gather data on industry standards, set clear goals, and maintain a record of accomplishments. Using active listening to read nonverbal cues, reflecting on negotiation language, and scheduling time for self-care before and after negotiations can also boost confidence and effectiveness.

Discover more about Stacey’s work and access her productivity guide for introverts, conference survival guide, and meetings playbook at ifactorleadership.com. Addit

Support the show

Want to be a guest on Speaking With Confidence? Send Tim Newman a message on PodMatch
Speaking With Confidence
Formula for Public Speaking
Facebook

Tim Newman:

Thank you for listening to the Speaking with Confidence podcast. Give us a review to tell everyone why you love the podcast. You can also download, like and share the podcast with friends. Be sure to visit formiforpublicspeakingcom and sign up for the Forming for Public Speaking course. It's a step-by-step system to help you become the confident and powerful speaker you've always wanted to be. Welcome to Speaking with Confidence, a podcast that's here to help you unlock the power of effective public speaking. I'm your host, tim Newman, and I'm excited to take you on a journey to become a better public speaker. Today's guest, stacey Chazin, is a dynamic leadership coach who empowers introverts to transform their natural qualities into professional assets. With a master's in organizational development and leadership and certification as a Myers-Briggs-type indicator practitioner, she draws from her extensive corporate and nonprofit experience. Stacey passionately guides her introverts towards achieving fulfillment and success, reshaping how introversion is viewed and valued in the workplace. Stacey, welcome to the show and I'm so glad that we connected because I think you and I are the same person.

Stacey Chazin:

Thank you, tim, I'm really happy to be here.

Tim Newman:

So you know, talk a little bit about your journey and how you came to embrace the whole idea of being an introvert.

Stacey Chazin:

Sure. So as I've told this story more and more when I'm talking with people about this work, I realized that my story actually began earlier and earlier in my life than when I first started telling it to the point where I really believe it began in preschool.

Stacey Chazin:

And I say that because when we're in preschool, as early as that, we hear messages from teachers, from parents, from other people's parents, that being more social, having more friends, taking part in every activity of circle time or playing with a whole bunch of kids on the playground, is preferable to going off on your own or having just one or two friends or, you know, building a tower made out of blocks with your best friend.

Stacey Chazin:

And we start hearing this message and we don't know it at the time that extroversion is better than introversion, and we don't know it at the time, that extroversion is better than introversion. And I certainly didn't know those words back then. But when I look back, I realized that throughout my life, starting back in preschool, and throughout elementary school and high school and even college, we continue to get these messages. We hear you need to be a better collaborator, you need to speak up more in class, right? Most classes you'll get a student participation grade, and that doesn't speak to dropping a note to the teacher at the end of the class. It's how often you're raising your hand and making some contribution, right.

Tim Newman:

Right right.

Stacey Chazin:

And this follows us into our career, where being someone who's a great networker, who likes to schmooze new clients, who loves to collaborate and offer up quick ideas around a conference room table rather than having the time to think these through All of these things are characteristics of extroverts, and for me, I had a seminal moment. One of my first aha moments was when I was working for a nonprofit organization. I think back in, I want to say it was around 2012. My boss had everyone in the company take a Myers-Briggs type indicator assessment, or MBTI, and for any of your listeners who are not familiar with the MBTI, it is the world's most commonly used personality assessment. It's used a lot in the business world by employers and essentially what it does is it lets you know what your preferences are along four different dimensions, one of which is how you get your energy from the world.

Stacey Chazin:

And if you are someone who is introverted or, technically we say, has a preference for introversion, you tend to be energized when you have time to think by yourself, be by yourself, engage with maybe one or two other people, or even engage with many people, but not for as long a period of time as an extrovert might, and an extrovert's the opposite right.

Stacey Chazin:

They're going to be fueled by the interactions with others. They don't need the breaks like we do. It's a whole different ballgame. And so I took the MBTI and I discovered that the word for my energy and the reason that I was feeling drained and the reason that I was feeling sometimes that I didn't quite fit in and thought I needed to change who I was, was that I was introverted and I not only learned about myself, but I learned about the people I work with as well, because we had an opportunity to share our Myers-Briggs profiles with one another and it was so eye-opening because it made me see oh, now I know why you drive me crazy, right, because you have a completely opposite letters than I do.

Stacey Chazin:

Right, I'm an ISTJ, which is introverted, sensing, thinking and judging the opposite of that, an ENFP, and it gave me insights into other people where I realized, okay, that's why you drive me crazy, it's not that you're not working hard or you're not as smart as me, or you're not as anything as me. We all approach things differently and a lot of that can be explained by our Myers-Briggs profile.

Tim Newman:

Right.

Stacey Chazin:

And I started to realize then that pretending to be something I wasn't and I'd heard being an extrovert is better than being an introvert. I'd heard this indirectly or directly again, since I was three years old, that that was a recipe for failure. Directly again since I was three years old, that that was a recipe for failure. And I started to see what would happen when I stopped pretending to be an extrovert but started to embrace and show up as my authentic, introverted self. And it was like night and day. We seldom are successful when we try to be something we're not, and that absolutely applies to being an introvert or extrovert. So fast forward a little bit and I became a leadership junkie. I decided to go back to school and get a master's in organizational development and leadership and really, when I look back on that program, the theme of it in retrospect was leading from a place of self-awareness. In retrospect was leading from a place of self-awareness and as an introvert. To me that was recognizing that I'm an introvert, knowing what that means for the situations and circumstances in which I'm going to thrive and most likely to be successful and feel self-fulfilled.

Stacey Chazin:

And I started blogging about that what it means to be more authentic and to not try to sweep your introversion under the rug. And I got amazing emails from people to say I feel seen, right, how do you know? That's just what I was thinking and it was so impactful for me to get messages like that. I've always been a writer, but I've never written like that before and made that impact before, and I said you know what? This is what I meant to do. I'm here to. I want to help other introverts stop feeling badly about their introversion and learn how to embrace the gifts, the strengths of being an introvert, so they can feel better about themselves, they can be more effective in their jobs and they can be recognized for the leaders that they're meant to be. So that was more than a nutshell, but that's how I got here.

Tim Newman:

And you said a lot of things in there and it's really important, like you said, to we have to know who we are to be be effective really in it at anything. And you know, for me, I I struggled when I was younger too with some of those same things, you know. You know kind of being forced or me forced myself to be more outgoing because that's what I thought would what I was supposed to be doing. Um, and that's that's kind of where, you know, I started to learn as well that you know need to just just be authentic, lean into who you are, do the things that that you know are working for you, and that's how you end up being successful. So how can we get, you know, the younger generation to understand that, figure out who they are, because I don't think they spend a whole lot of time thinking about who they are and what makes them tick and what their strengths and weaknesses are. How can we get them to not get into their 30s and 40s to figure it out?

Stacey Chazin:

Yeah, great question. So a really easy way to do it is if you have the opportunity to take a Myers-Briggs assessment, or there are other assessments out there like the Enneagram, another assessment that helps you to identify really what makes you tick, just through a different lens. So I think if you have the opportunity to do that, or you can do that on your own, you can actually do it with a practitioner, or you can do it right directly through the Myers-Briggs website and get your report by yourself without having to involve anyone else, and it's not that expensive. So that's one way of doing that. If, short of doing that, or even in addition to doing that, what I'd suggest is to if people could start to pay attention to when are. When are you feeling at your best? When are you doing?

Stacey Chazin:

your best work. Um and this is an approach that I take with my coaching clients Um, it's a framework called appreciative coaching and essentially what it does is it starts with an exercise where I guide people to identify what's called their positive core. So that's the best of who they are really, and you can do this on your own as well. You can think about, reflect on what were some times at work maybe it's when you were in school. If you're still younger in your career and don't have a lot of work experiences to reflect on yet, what were some times where I felt like I was doing my best work, where I felt like I was recognized for my strengths, where I felt most fulfilled. Questions like that. And to write down what those experiences were and then take a look at what are some common themes across those experiences in terms of, let's say, they were all experiences where you had a chance to be a writer. You contributed in writing.

Stacey Chazin:

Writing is a strength that many introverts have. Maybe one of the things is you had an opportunity to collaborate with people in small groups or just with one other person, or you had an opportunity to do. It was an opportunity to do work that was very values based. It was aligned with your values as a human, not even necessarily as an introvert, but introverts tend to have more of a need, a desire to do value based work. So you take a look at that and from that process you can start to pull out what are the things that you were able to apply to these situations that made them successful.

Stacey Chazin:

And you might, for example, find that my positive core is and I'll use myself as an example I think pieces of my positive core are that I'm a strong writer, I like to go deep in relationships and go deep in subject matter expertise and I like to do values-based work. Those are some things that make up my positive core. And with that nugget of information, you can begin to see what are the situations and circumstances work environments, project expectations, what are the types of things that you want to have in place to increase the likelihood that you're going to be successful, that you're going to be, you're going to feel fulfilled, and then you can start to seek out opportunities and roles that align with your positive core.

Tim Newman:

Yeah, and and I think, along with that, that it's okay to lean into, that. It's okay to I wouldn't say you know, they're rebelling against us, they're everything but what they actually are. And you know, I see this all the time. I tell students and people I coach it's okay, you know, don't worry about what they're telling you, don't worry about those things. If this is what makes you successful, then that's what you need to do, because if you're doing what they're telling you to do and you're not successful, then it doesn't really matter.

Stacey Chazin:

Yeah, that's exactly right and that when you say buck the system, most workplaces are designed with extroverts in mind. Think about it. I know on my schedule back-to-back meetings. Some companies I've been working with they try to build in okay, we're going to just have our meetings go 50 minutes rather than 60 minutes, so people have a chance to take a break in between, and they can't even stick to that. So back-to-back meetings you're expected to be on all the time, even when you're working at home. I think that there's sometimes an increased expectation that you're available after hours because you have access to your phone, to your laptop, if you're on site. There are a lot of open office layouts that are very popular these days. There are expectations again of networking and schmoozing, and all of these things are extrovert friendly. They're not aligned with how introverts are going to thrive.

Tim Newman:

Yeah, and that when you talk about, you know, work from home or being, you know, being connected at home, for me I feel obligated, you know. And when I'm at home Because I don't want to let people down, I'm also an ISTJ. Because I don't want to let people down, I'm also an ISTJ. And the reliability if I say I'm going to do something, that's going to get done, and all those things. So if something comes through the thought that goes through my head now hold on a minute I've got to stop doing what I'm doing and get this taken care of.

Stacey Chazin:

Wow.

Tim Newman:

That again is the good and bad of technology and and these types of things. Um, and you know we've talked about this a little bit. You know we do this to ourselves. You know it's it's kind of some of the that inner self talk that we have to be okay with saying you know what? I'm not going to do this now. I need to take the time to do whatever it is that I was doing, or relax or whatever and I'll get to this later and that's another hard thing to do. It's another hard thing, I think, for people like us to wrap our brains around that it's going to be okay if we don't do whatever.

Stacey Chazin:

that is at that given point in time don't do whatever that is at that given point in time. Yeah, that's a great point. Introverts also tend to be averse to conflict, so saying no is a very hard thing for introverts to do sometimes. Right, we take on, we say yes, we want to be a team player. Although we don't want to always be with a team, we want to be a team player. And so saying no, because we are averse to conflict, because sometimes we are not confident speaking up assertively, we don't say no sometimes when we need to.

Stacey Chazin:

And the challenge with that is it kind of fuels burnout for us, right, Introvert burnout. It's like when your energy is depleted on a regular basis and you're not having a chance to recharge. If you're overloaded with work, you're taking on things that are more than what your bandwidth can handle, or you're saying yes to something that maybe isn't quite aligned with your skill set, which makes you uncomfortable. All these things can feel burnout and that can affect you physically, emotionally, psychologically. It takes its toll and no good is going to come of that.

Tim Newman:

Right Now, when we go down that road, we also have to understand that there are some things that we have to do. Yes, such as communication, yes, such as communication. So let's just say and we'll get into some characteristics of the introverted leader in a little bit but we have to be able to communicate with people and let's just say a team meeting, you have to be able to stand up and communicate. I say, stand up. You don't necessarily have to stand up, but you have to be able to communicate your, whatever it is, your responsibilities are, if you're reporting on a project, if you're giving a presentation or something else, if you're pitching a client, whatever that is, sometimes it's stepping outside of that, that, that box, and performing, and we have to be, sometimes we have to be comfortable with being uncomfortable.

Stacey Chazin:

Absolutely.

Tim Newman:

And that's a different skill set that you know we've got to get over. I think Go ahead. I'm sorry.

Stacey Chazin:

Yeah, no, not at all. I think that's a great point. What I'll say on top of that is you can do those things. You can speak up at meetings and you can present in front of a group or present in front of a large you know a ballroom at a conference. You can do those things. You can speak up at meetings and you can present in front of a group or present in front of a large you know a ballroom at a conference. You can do all these things.

Stacey Chazin:

The key is doing it in a way that taps into your innate introverted strengths. You need to do it the introvert way, not the extrovert way, and so what that means, for example, is if you're in a meeting, you want to do a couple things that can set you up for success. One you want to request the meeting agenda in advance. Most meetings, if people are doing it right, there's an agenda. You can get it in advance, and then, for each topic on that agenda that's relevant to you, you want to have some input. Identify one point that you want to make around each of those topics ahead of time, get any supporting data or evidence that you need, write it down so when the time comes at the meeting. You're prepared, but introverts are very good at preparation and that's one of the keys to being successful as a communicator. So that's one thing you can do.

Stacey Chazin:

Another thing you can do is and this speaks to how we can make workplaces more inclusive and responsive to the needs of introverts is to ask for opportunities to contribute in writing, either before the meeting or after the meeting, or to ask could you meet with the meeting facilitator or a decision maker after the meeting and have a one-on-one conversation. So it's taking this meetings, this typical traditional meetings forum, whether it's on Zoom or it's in person, and how can you make that something that's going to be introvert friendly? And, tim, I'll give you for show notes if you want to include. I have a meetings playbook for introverts. It's something free folks can get and it's ways to have your voice heard and your ideas shine in meetings.

Stacey Chazin:

Yeah, that'd be great With strategies just for introverts, but it's definitely something that you can master and so that you're increasingly less uncomfortable or more comfortable in those spaces.

Tim Newman:

I think that would be great for our audience.

Tim Newman:

And, again, understanding that you have to know who you are.

Tim Newman:

And, again, I think, the preparation, which is something that and it could be that I harp on preparation because that's who I am, but preparation is so important really in everything that we do Doing that background research and having that background knowledge so that you can respond or that you can give that out, it really kind of makes sense as you start to learn to think about yourself and who, why, why you're doing some of those things that you're doing and and and having a tool like that, I think would be very, very helpful for for the audience.

Tim Newman:

So, from a well, what are some other tips or things that you could, you could give the give the audience about this? Let's just say, going to a networking event, because for me, going to a networking event, I'd rather put myself in the eyeball with toothpicks than do something like that, but again, it's one of those things that I know that's something that we have to do. We have to go and interact and meet people and make those connections. What are some things that our audience could do, as an introvert, to be able to go and do those things and be successful as well.

Stacey Chazin:

Yeah, I think, tim, you and I really are the same person, I feel the same way I want to poke my eyes.

Stacey Chazin:

Let me say I used to feel that way, but then, like the other strategies and approaches I've talked about, I figured out how to do it the introvert way, and it's not so bad anymore. So here's what I advise and what I've practiced is so typically, if you're going to a big conference, a lot of conferences these days have an app that you can use, where you have all the information about the sessions and whatnot, and you'll typically also have a list of attendees there, whether it's on an app or you can possibly get it ahead of time. Another way Take a look at who's going to be there and identify ahead of time who you want to meet, and what I suggest is maybe find three people per day who you want to make sure that you connect with. Look them up, find them on LinkedIn or find their website for their organization, learn a little bit about them and then make it your mission each day to check those three people off your list in a way that's meaningful. So, if there's a cocktail reception, if there's other networking time, find your people. Most conferences will have name badges, so that should be helpful.

Stacey Chazin:

So prepare ahead of time. Identify who you want to meet. Talk to them, find out, prepare your talking points ahead of time for each person, or maybe it's just a goal. So I want to meet Tim and I want to. When I talk to him, I want to find out what does he think the biggest trend is in our industry for next year? Right, it could be whatever it is you want to get out of it. Or maybe you want some piece of career advice and keep a list for yourself and when you've gotten through your three people that day, be done. Right, you've done what you need to do. You'll have an opportunity to go deeper. Right, it's not about trying to collect 50 business cards or get 50 new connections on LinkedIn, but going deeper with a set of people who you identify in advance. The other thing that I would suggest is have some icebreaker some icebreakers in your back pocket, right, a lot of us we hate small talk as introverts.

Stacey Chazin:

So that pressure like oh, what am I going to talk about? Right, it could be the weather, it could be last night's game, whatever it is, but come up with a couple of small talk prompts that are maybe aligned with your professional interests and have those in your hand so you're not doing it on the fly. And then the last thing I'll offer is if you're at a big conference and you want to protect your introverted energy, right, you're going to be more likely to burn out. If you're at a multi-day conference, especially you're away from home. Let's say, give yourself some grace and when the official events are done for the day, go up to your hotel room and just recharge, decompress, or maybe let yourself off the hook. And if you don't have to go to every session of the conference, pick the ones that are most important to you so that you're going to increase the likelihood that you'll be your best self.

Stacey Chazin:

so that you're going to increase the likelihood that you'll be your best self. And just because I have you, I will say too I'll also give you a link, for I have a conference survival guide. Oh, I need it it has other tips like that, including some other networking strategies, so I'll give you a link to that as well to share.

Tim Newman:

You know it's funny as you talk about that. I think I know my daily schedule right Because, again, we talked about my ADHD is just so bad and, being an introvert, I'm a mess at times. So I try and keep a very rigid schedule. And when I go to conferences, let's just say, things start at 8 o'clock. Normally I'm already up and working and have gotten so much done before eight o'clock, whatever it is.

Tim Newman:

But I look at eight o'clock me. I'm like, oh my God, eight o'clock meeting or you know eight o'clock session, or this, that or the other thing. I'm like, oh my gosh, I've got to get up this. I got to get up so early and then do this when it's my normal schedule at 8 o'clock meeting is nothing, but by noon I'm wiped out. I mean, I am just exhausted for whatever reason it is, and let alone having to do the 6 o'clock happy hour networking event. I'm done.

Tim Newman:

And so having a way to be able to get through some of those things and still be professional and still do the things that you need to do, if I could have had that 20 years ago or 30 years ago, instead of fighting yourself, the, you know, and that's one of the things you know with technology right now, if we can get the young professionals or the younger generations to understand, you know some of these things, how much better their lives will be and how much better professionals they'll be. You know, to kind of learn from, I wouldn't say our mistakes, but our struggles, because, you know again, they have so much more access to information than we did too. Yeah Right, yeah I mean.

Tim Newman:

Go ahead.

Stacey Chazin:

I was going to say you probably used to have a Rolodex right Like I did.

Tim Newman:

Like an actual.

Stacey Chazin:

Rolodex of cards and I don't know how we research companies.

Tim Newman:

Did we go?

Stacey Chazin:

to the library and look on the microfiche like how did you right? There was no world wide web, there was any college or, or it was in its very early stages and only the engineering kids knew how to use it or how to access it uh, yeah, I remember when the palm pilot came out, I got one of those and that that that thing was was amazing.

Tim Newman:

I actually have a friend who just got rid of his about five years ago. Yeah, so, um, but but you know the, the access that we have. Let's just think about, think about the myers-briggs 30 years ago. I know it's evolved a little bit, but but how we, how we took it or or it, um, I know the last time I took it was probably five or six years ago and it was done on computer. It spits out your, your profile, it gives you all these different types of of, uh, ideas and tactics and those types of things and before you had to pull it out, send it off in the mail you may.

Tim Newman:

You would get your results back in three or four weeks, and now we can do this right away. A few weeks ago actually a couple months ago now my colleagues and I did what's called the disk profile, and so now that's the first time I've ever done a disk and I compare the disk with the Myers-Briggs and it really kind of solidifies why I do the things that I do. Because we were looking at it just from a meeting perspective, how we interact in meetings and it opened my eyes about some of my colleagues and the way I act is oh, that's why you're so direct, you know, or those types of things. So we have so much more access to information and, again, if we can get the younger generations to do these things, accept it and lean into it and be authentic and be yourself, you're going to be so much more productive, you're going to be so much more you know everything in your life will be better, not just your professional lives, your personal lives as well.

Stacey Chazin:

Yeah, absolutely, and it's not just your introversion, even though that's what we're talking about today, right? The same is true, for, however you're wired Exactly, or you're authentically you Fighting, that is generally not going to turn out well for you, right? I mean, I'm, I'm all in favor of, of using your strengths and building on your strengths and, um, if there's something that's problematic for you in your life, sure go ahead and address it, but don't try to pretend to be something you're not, and the sooner you can get your arms around. What is it? What is my positive core? What makes me? What makes me me, and how can I use those gifts in all aspects of my life.

Stacey Chazin:

Especially in your career. I think it is really such a natural accelerator in terms of leadership and success and fulfillment.

Tim Newman:

Yeah, and, and when you're trying to be something or somebody that you're not, people see through it relatively quickly. Yeah, yeah, and. And when you're trying to be something or somebody that you're not, people see through it relatively quickly, yeah, yeah. And you lose credibility that way it's.

Tim Newman:

You know. Again, I would rather say I don't know or I'm not good at that, just come right out and say, no, that's not something that I can do. Example you know where we live. I've got an HOA and I don't want to get into HOA stuff, but they needed something done and I said you can give me a report and I can go through and I could do some of the research for you, but I'm not the detail person. Don't give me numbers. I mean I'll go through and I can pick stuff out, but I'm not the numbers person. And they were looking for a numbers person. They said, well, why can't you just do the numbers? I said, well, that's not what I do. I can't. I can't help you there.

Tim Newman:

I mean that's that's and they couldn't understand why. Why wouldn't help them in that, in that aspect, if I said I could do it? It's not help, it's not actually helping you either. So lean in. It's okay to say no, it's okay to say I'm not good at something, give that off to somebody else, and again, I think that's a sign of a good leader. You know, especially so, what are some characteristics or things that introverts can do to really be good leaders.

Stacey Chazin:

Well, it comes back to tapping into your innate gifts. So I'll highlight a few things that are really some core leadership strengths, I think, of introverts, right. And so one is we tend to have a calm demeanor. Right, we're not the loudest voice in the room, but we tend to be very good, when there is agitation or conflict or some type of crisis, in not just stepping in immediately and wanting to throw some idea on the table and speak out loud. Introverts we say introverts tend to think out loud. I'm sorry, extroverts tend to think out loud, introverts do not. So you can sit back during a time of crisis or conflict and really take in what's going on, appreciate the context more deeply, so that when you do speak up, the ideas that you're sharing are much more grounded in that context, in the nuance as well as in fact.

Stacey Chazin:

The next thing and this is something I think is lost on people is that introverts tend to be highly emotionally intelligent. We have really high levels of empathy. What are their perspectives? If we're in a negotiation or we're trying to design a program that is going to meet a community's needs? What are the dynamics going around the table? What are people's emotions? What are their fears? What do they care about, pick up on those and then design our recommendations and cater how we communicate to those nuances.

Stacey Chazin:

That's a huge leadership gift. We're reflective thinkers. So when you're very introspective, like we are, as introverts, you're able to be a stabilizing force. But you're also able to come up with innovations and creative solutions that the people who are speaking off the cuff aren't necessarily going to have. So that positions you to be an innovative leader, to be an innovative thinker.

Stacey Chazin:

And then the last thing I'll mention is we're really good listeners, and that sounds like, oh, listening, right, it's kind of ho-hum, but being a deep and reflective listener allows you to do a lot of things. It allows you to appreciate the depth of a situation, the depth of a need, more powerfully than someone who's extroverted. It also allows you to, when we talk about listening, it's not just about with our ears, right, it's listening with our eyes as well. We're very good at picking up on nonverbal cues. So you can see if in someone's eyes, in how someone is leaning forward, which might communicate some interest and support, or they're leaning back with their arms folded, which could be some defensiveness, right, we're very good at picking up on those cues and that's a really powerful communication skill. So communication is so much more than just speaking right you know that.

Stacey Chazin:

So how you're taking it in, how you're processing what you're taking in, and then how that really bolsters your ability to lead, to offer solutions, to motivate people, to inspire trust and to build collaboration.

Tim Newman:

That's really powerful, yeah and as you talk about that, you said a lot of things and I started thinking about leaders and some of the things that they've done and who these people are. I think there are good extrovert leaders and they're good introvert leaders Again, not singling any of them out but I think when you get to the whole idea of listening, that to me is something that really kind of separates people. If you're actually interested and caring enough to listen to what other people have to say and what they think, I think that's the. That, to me, is one of the biggest separators of leaders that there is.

Stacey Chazin:

Yep, yep, and it really, when people feel like you're listening to them, when they, when they think you're really seeing them and you're not just waiting for them to finish talking so that you can say what you want to say, it really helps to strengthen your relationship with them and it elevates the esteem in which they hold you, because it speaks well of you and it makes them feel cared for Right.

Tim Newman:

So what about? You know introverts in terms of advocating for themselves, in terms of getting promotions or negotiating raises, or even negotiating you know sales agreements or contracts or things of that nature, where, again, we're I I don't want to say that we're, I don't even want to say that, I think I'm going to cut that out, but you know what I'm the word, I don't know the exact word, I'm trying to say um, but we're, I think we're, we're near quiet, we're more um, we're perceived as more quiet, but inside, again, we're thinking and we're doing all those other things that people don't even realize that we're doing. So talk about introverts in terms of those negotiation types of skills.

Stacey Chazin:

Yeah, and I think what you might be getting at a little there too is we're not comfortable shining a light on our accomplishments in the same way that extroverts want to, right. So we're uncomfortable being in the spotlight perhaps, and then which also can undercut our confidence when we're going ahead to make an ask, whether it's for a promotion, a raise, a project role or trying to get some recognition for our thought leadership. So it won't surprise you, what I'm going to talk about is very based in tapping into the introverts' strengths. So the first thing you're going to want to do and let's say you want to ask for a raise so the first thing you want to do is we talked about how good introverts are at preparing you want to do research.

Stacey Chazin:

You want to find out what's the salary band for people in your industry in your geographic area with your level of experience. What's the salary band for people in your industry in your geographic area with your level of experience, what's the salary range there and where do you fall within that? So you want to come to the negotiation with data in hand. You want to have your evidence there. The next thing you want to do is you want to set clear goals for the negotiation. What's your ideal that you want to accomplish and what's the minimum that you're willing to take? What's your ideal that you want to accomplish and what's the minimum that you're willing to take? And what that lets you do is it removes some of the need to make decisions in the moment, because you've already given thought ahead of time.

Stacey Chazin:

Let's say you're asking for a $10,000 raise. That's really what you want, but you're not willing to take less than eight. If your employer offers you six, you've already come to that decision. Right, that six is not going to cut it for you. And of course, every situation is going to be unique. But I'm simplifying it a bit. But it takes some of that pressure off. So you've made some of those decisions ahead of time.

Stacey Chazin:

The next thing is we just talked about how good introverts are at active listening. You want to pay attention to nonverbal cues that are coming up in your conversation with whoever you're negotiating with right Again. Are they leaning forward? Are they leaning back? Are they nodding? Did they seem to have some visceral reaction to a point you made? Pay attention to those things so that you can build on the things that seem to be resonating and maybe adjust your approach for things that are being counterproductive. Another really big thing and this is something that introverts are great at is you want to create a compendium of your accomplishments over the course of the year.

Stacey Chazin:

And this is something you can't do it in the moment, or you can, but it's going to be a lot more stressful and a lot more work. But as you're going about your day, your week, your months, your whole year keep a list. Create a folder on your computer, if you want. Keep a list of contributions you've made. Keep an email folder where you save any emails you receive from other people, either in your organization or beyond it, with praise or acknowledging something you've done, some contribution you've made. Create this folder you can call it emails that say I'm great or reasons I'm a rock star whatever you want to call it, and you have it in one place. You can refer back to that when the time comes.

Stacey Chazin:

You don't want to then be scrambling if a promotion opens up or you realize that you won't be asking for a raise or you're planning to ahead of time.

Stacey Chazin:

Get your ducks in a row, get this information together so that you have it handy and it's easy to tap into.

Stacey Chazin:

And here's one that I think that doesn't immediately come to mind, but we talked a little bit before about the energy drain that introverts face, that we're more susceptible to at work.

Stacey Chazin:

Practice self-care when you're in a negotiating process, and that means if you know that you have a negotiating meeting with your boss, that's probably something that's going to be draining for you. Maybe block the hour before your meeting and the hour after your meeting so that you can charge up ahead of time and then you have that hour afterwards to decompress and reflect on how the experience went. And then that'll lead me to my last recommendation reflecting. So we're very good at going deep and reflecting on experiences. After each negotiating meeting, after the whole process is done, write down some reflections for yourself about what seemed to work, when was I most comfortable? When did I feel most confident? What language did I use that seemed to have the most positive impact on the process, so that you can reflect, identify areas you can build upon for next time and also identify things you might want to make some tweaks to the next time you go about negotiating.

Tim Newman:

That's a really good idea. I never really thought about that from that perspective Generally. It's just kind of thinking about how I do things Generally. When I have big meetings or things of um, I'll call one or two people and we'll talk it through after it's over and then I let it go. But being able to, to write it down to, to go back and look at like, like you said, you know where to feel really good in the language that I used, we can then go back and say, okay, start practicing that or start putting those things into practice as well, that's a really good idea. So is there anything else that we did not talk about that you think our audience should know?

Stacey Chazin:

I think that I would love to see your audience begin as they move through their careers. I would love to see them think about how they can change the narrative about introverts in today's workplaces. So, certainly, advocate for yourself and consider the strategies we talked about today, but take advantage of opportunities to educate other people, to educate your manager, to educate your peers, other people you manager, to educate your peers, other people you network with about what your introversion means. Right, I would encourage people, to the extent that you're comfortable, say hey, I just want you to know. I feel like I'm going to be able to contribute a lot more to this conversation or to this dialogue if I can give you my ideas in writing, because I'm an introvert, which means that I'm really good. I'm really good at when I have time to prepare. Let them know that. That's what that means, to the extent that you're comfortable. So it's like I feel like introversion has become a dirty word and I'd love to change that I?

Stacey Chazin:

tell people that I'm a proud introvert and it's interesting, when I reflect on that, that I feel the need to say that, right, we shouldn't have to. I don't think people say, oh, I'm a proud extrovert right. To the extent that you can help to change this narrative and show others all the great things it means when you're an introvert and how you can contribute, how you can be a leader and why it's valuable having an introvert or, of course, many introverts on your team at work.

Tim Newman:

You know, I'm thinking, as you said, that since I've been doing this podcast, the, the majority of people that I've spoken with are introverts and the and the research that I've been doing is the majority of people in the world are introverts, and it seems like we've got everything flipped around and so that you know we're acting like and behaving like the majority of the world are extroverts. Yeah, and it didn't hit me until you just said what you just said.

Stacey Chazin:

Yeah, yeah, it really. It didn't hit me until you just said what you just said. Yeah, and and think of this, only two percent of senior executives in this country in corporations are introverted. Right, we are. We are significantly underrepresented at the top because there's this extrovert bias, that's just everywhere, especially in business.

Tim Newman:

Oh, that's. It's pretty eye-opening, but again you know, figure out who you are and lean into it and don't worry about what everybody else is saying or doing. I mean because you've got to be you.

Stacey Chazin:

Yep.

Tim Newman:

So Stacey, where can people find you and work with you and get those free resources?

Stacey Chazin:

So people can work with me and find out about me and get all these good resources by going to my website, which is ifactorleadershipcom. If you go to the website, you'll actually see there's a pop up there that'll help you to download a productivity guide that I created for introverts. It's daily productivity hacks that help you to be more productive with less stress. I'm going to put my conference survival guide and the meetings playbook. I'll give you the links for the show notes to put that there. If you go to ifactorgiftcom, there'll be some resources there as well, and folks can also find me on LinkedIn and you can learn about how you can work with me. I have an on-demand learning program called the Introverts Leadership Formula that it's a self-paced course you can go through and then I also do private coaching.

Tim Newman:

That's awesome. Go through. And then I also do private coaching. That's awesome and for anybody. I'll make sure again, I'll make sure that all those are in the show notes for everybody. And so, Stacey, thank you so much for spending some time with us today. I really do appreciate it. I love the conversation and, again for everybody out there, please just lean into who you are, Figure out who you are and lean into it. So again, thanks so much, Stacey.

Stacey Chazin:

Thanks Tim.

Tim Newman:

It was a pleasure. Be sure to visit speakingwithconfidencepodcastcom to join our growing community and register for the Formula for Public Speaking course. Always remember your voice has the power to change the world. We'll talk to you next time, Take care. I hope you enjoyed the latest episode of Speaking with Confidence. Give us a review to tell everyone why you love the podcast. You can also download, like and share the podcast with friends. Be sure to visit formiforpublicspeakingcom and sign up for the Formula for Public Speaking course. It's a step-by-step system to help you become the confident and powerful speaker you've always wanted to be. We'll see you next time, Take care.

People on this episode

Head Shot

Tim Newman

Host