The Art of Saying No: How to Set Boundaries Without the Guilt With Suzanne Culberg

In this episode of Speaking with Confidence, we dive deep into the often-overlooked art of setting boundaries and the importance of clear communication in our daily lives. With many of us struggling to say "no" and feeling compelled to participate in activities we don't enjoy, learning to set boundaries without guilt can significantly enhance our personal and professional relationships.

Today's guest is Suzanne Culberg, also known as "The No Coach." Suzanne has made a name for herself by helping people-pleasers break free from their tendencies to agree to everything and instead, set healthy boundaries. Through her straightforward approach and personal anecdotes, she provides invaluable insights into the complexities of saying "no" and the power of honest communication.

Overview of What Was Discussed:

The Importance of Saying "No": Suzanne underscores the necessity of openly communicating when one lacks interest in participating in activities to avoid feeling obligated and to maintain authenticity in relationships. She shares personal stories to illustrate this point, such as her lifelong choice of being a teetotaler.

Boundaries and Honesty: Both Suzanne and Tim discuss the societal tendency to sugarcoat refusals and how refreshing direct communication can be. Suzanne shares her frustration with insincere declines and emphasizes the importance of framing questions clearly to avoid misunderstandings.

Challenges of Coordination: They explore the intricacies of managing schedules across different time zones and the convenience of digital tools. Suzanne expresses her preference for digital calendars and highlights the importance of clear communication preferences.

Setting Boundaries with Loved Ones: Suzanne advises starting the practice of saying "no" with strangers before moving on to close relationships, sharing personal experiences to illuminate the gradual process of setting and adjusting boundaries.

Balanced Relationships and Reciprocity: The discussion touches on the potential for unbalanced relationships, illustrated by Suzanne's story of overextending herself to help another mom. The conversation also dives into the importance of sustaining meaningful relationships through mutual respect and understanding.

5 Key Takeaways:

Learning to Say "No": Begin with strangers and practice saying "no" in low-stakes situations to build confidence. This gradual approach helps prepare for setting boundaries in more significant relationships.

Honesty Over Sugarcoating: Direct communication can prevent misunderstandings and foster genuine interactions. Instead of giving insincere excuses, be honest about your disinterest in an activity.

Digital Tools for Scheduling: Utilize digital calendars to manage time effectively and coordinate across different time zones. This can significantly reduce the stress of back-and-forth communication.

Setting Boundaries is a Gradual Process: Making small adjustments and having open conversations about new boundaries can lead to significant long-term changes. Acknowledge past behaviors and be clear about your new intentions.

Balanced Reciprocity in Relationships: Understanding the importance of equal effort in relationships helps prevent feelings of being used. Setting expectations and

Chapters

• 0:32 Empowerment Through Setting Boundaries
• 14:06 Communication and Setting Healthy Boundaries
• 26:01 Parental Support and Sporting Activities
• 34:56 Navigating Apologies and Setting Boundaries
• 44:40 Establishing Healthy Communication and Boundaries
• 56:30 Navigating Boundaries and Saying No
• 1:05:37 Navigating Boundaries and Personal Growth

Transcript

Tim Newman: 0:32

Thank you for listening to the Speaking with Confidence podcast. Give us a review to tell everyone why you love the podcast. You can also download, like and share the podcast with friends. Be sure to visit formiforpublicspeakingcom and sign up for the Forming for Public Speaking course. It's a step-by-step system to help you become the confident and powerful speaker you've always wanted to be. Welcome to Speaking with Confidence, a podcast that's here to help you unlock the power of effective public speaking. I'm your host, Tim Newman, and I'm excited to take you on a journey to become a better public speaker. I really appreciate each and every one of our listeners and thank you for your support. If each of you could do one thing for me, it would be to give us a five-star review and share the podcast with someone close to you who would benefit from listening. Today's guest, Suzanne Goldberg. I almost called you, Goldberg.

Suzanne Culberg: 1:32

I get that a lot. You can leave it in if you want. I don't mind, all right.

Tim Newman: 1:39

Today's guest, suzanne Culberg, is the NOPE coach. She helps over givers and people pleasers learn to set boundaries and say no without feeling guilty or be a bitch. She has recorded over 400 podcast episodes. She's also known for her straight talking and wacky t-shirts. She lives in Sydney, australia, with her husband and two awesome children. Suzanne, welcome to the show. I've been looking forward to talking to you for a long time. Thanks for joining us.

Suzanne Culberg: 2:04

Thank you, tim. I was just checking out what shirt I had on for you today. It's Houston. I have so many problems. Oh my goodness.

Tim Newman: 2:15

That's awesome and we're recording this. You know, the day after Election Day and you know Houston, we do have, we've got a lot of problems. That's awesome, but again, thanks for joining us. And you know, right before we started doing this, my oldest daughter called me and I said I've got an interview and she said, well, who are you interviewing? And I said I've got an interview and she said, well, who are you interviewing? And I said the note coach? And she had no idea what I was talking about and I told her and she said she started laughing. She said that's really good. So I've already sent her a link to your website. So if you get somebody from, you know, pennsylvania today, I get that referral.

Suzanne Culberg: 2:54

Thank you. Tell her to send me a message. If you go over to the part of my website that says don't click because it's for the rebels in the house, you can send me a message. And I do respond to all the messages that come in, because I don't know if it was my pen pal days when I was a kid, but I think we've lost the art of actually connecting with people, putting everyone into our funnels and doing the type this word and my bot will respond to you. I was like no, I ain't got time for that.

Tim Newman: 3:17

Yeah, and I'm glad you said that hit the don't click, because when I first started talking to you, that's what I told you. I did the very first thing I did when I went to your website. I didn't hit the start here, I hit the don't click link.

Tim Newman: 3:30

I love it. I love the way it's set up. I think it. I love the way it's set up. I think you and I are, you know, pretty compatible with how we think and how we go about doing things. So this is great. But when did you learn, or how did the idea of the note coach start and how did it turn into this amazing resource for people? Because you know saying no. You know there's many different reasons why people say no. We don't, you know, we don't want to. Why people say no, we don't, you know, we don't want to hurt somebody's feelings. We want people to like us. All these other things.

Suzanne Culberg: 4:06

So when did you realize you actually had something that you could could really help people? It's actually not as straightforward story as people would expect. So my original business was weight loss mindset coaching. Now I never cared what people ate or how they exercise, because they know what to do. They just don't do it. So I've coached people with getting stuff done that they want to get done and I originally ended up in the weight loss niche, even though I never liked the term.

Suzanne Culberg: 4:28

But when SEO, people aren't looking for mindset help. Maybe now they would be, but anyway it's because I had my own weight journey. I dropped 171 pounds, so like I used to weigh double what I do now. But anyway I I really felt passionately about body positivity and loving the skin that you're in and all this sort of stuff. So I just never sat well with the weight loss as my business and eventually I was like no, I need to rebrand this, I don't want to. I don like no, I need to rebrand this, I don't want to. I don't want to be associated with this anymore. I, if I never have to hear about calories or kilos or pounds or anything again, my life will feel complete.

Suzanne Culberg: 5:04

So I hired someone to help me with my like messaging in my business and I had to fill out I don't know how many forms and paperwork and ideal avatars and all this sort of stuff to try and get to the nuts and bolts of like what it is that I actually do. And she was like you really help people, advocate for themselves and overcome self-doubt. She's like you're such a yay-sayer and I was like, ooh, that makes me want to die inside Nope. And she's like, how about the nope coach? And I was like, oh, that I can get behind.

Tim Newman: 5:37

So that's how it came to be and you know, and I've kind of heard your, your story that I'm gonna want you to tell here in a second. But you know, that's that's what we do. We, we just say yes without thinking about it right, um, a lot of times because it's kind of ingrained in our psyche. You know, I would say for most people it's ingrained in our psyche from a relatively young age maybe young teenagers, maybe even before that, but you know, at least for me, from a teenager age group on and then we tell ourselves these stories about why we need to be saying yes to to everything.

Suzanne Culberg: 6:19

Yes. So in terms of like, that's the business side of my story, but in terms of you know, you teach what you most need to know so you can know it Personally. Yeah, I was raised in condition to be a people pleaser and I'm sure my parents had the best of intentions. Like you. Don't deliberately. Often there are exceptions, like go out to muck up your kids, but we teach our kids to be polite, be good girls and good boys and don't rock the boat and make people feel good and that messaging.

Suzanne Culberg: 6:49

I question that, because making people feel good sounds nice on the surface, but what is not said is making people feel good at the expense of you. So you know, if you said, hey, Suzanne, do you want to go hiking today? And I'm thinking Tim gosh, no, no. But I'm like, oh, Tim's asked me and I don't want to let him down and he really likes hiking, I'll be like, sure, but instead I'll be like if, if I was honest, I'd love to hang out today, tim, that sounds great, hiking's not really my thing.

Suzanne Culberg: 7:21

What else you got? And then you can find something instead of doing all these things that you don't really want to do. Right, and not even pausing to ask do you want to do it? I can think of some of the, some of the movies or stage plays or things that I've attended that left to my own devices I just never would have. And sometimes people take this to the extreme and they're like so you're saying you never do anything, you don't want to, and I'm like I've got a great example Tomorrow my son. It's his assembly piece, so they're putting on a written piece that they've all written. He's in grade three. So I'm excited to see my son his 30 seconds of his speech. I'm not excited to see the other 99 of them.

Suzanne Culberg: 8:05

But I won't be rude, I won't get up and leave, I won't whatever like I will attend. So there are times if it's really important to the other person, I will go hands down. But if it's something like hiking or let's see a horror movie or something that you could do without me, then I think it's time that we actually articulate that it's not for us and let go of the fact that we're letting the other person down, because, tim, if you really want to go hiking, I'm sure you could ask someone else, not the only person in the world you could hike with.

Tim Newman: 8:32

Right Once you go hiking, and then we'll get together, we'll have a beer afterwards and and spend some time together like that, or you know whatever that is. You know and, but but again, you're, you're right, especially if it's somebody that we care about, um, or that's important to us in some way, whether it's a personal relationship or a business relationship or what have you. You know, we, we struggle with saying that no, because we don't want to let them down or for whatever reason. And again, there are times that you have to do things that you don't necessarily want to do. I mean, you know, because that's part of life. You have to do things sometimes that you don't want to do. That's part of being an adult and being a grown-up at some points. But you know, but being able to decide what those are for yourself and make those decisions for yourself is really a learned skill.

Suzanne Culberg: 9:22

Yes, yes, and also to be able to communicate Like thank you, I appreciate this. I love the things I get invited to. I appreciate that someone's thought of me, but it's a no for me, a no to the activity, but not a no to them or no judgment on what they like to do. Instead and I think that's the thing it's healthy to have that ability to separate the no from a judgment of you as a person or the activity that you're undertaking. Because you know like it's funny you said have a beer afterwards. I'm a teetotaler, always have been. It fascinates people. They're like are you religious? Are you this? I'm like no, I just I've always liked my calories through food, so I never got into drinking. But sometimes people will get so affronted and they're like what does your husband think? And I'm like he loves having a permanent designated driver.

Tim Newman: 10:19

There you go. Well, that's you know, that's great. Again, it's whatever you. You've developed that skill to do what you want to do without worrying about what other people necessarily think, which again is is on a whole nother level. Some of that self-talk that we have, you know, talked ourselves into.

Suzanne Culberg: 10:31

Yes, and also the stories we make. It mean. Sometimes people are just genuinely curious or they're like you know they'll be like. So how do you find have fun without alcohol? Like it passed me would be like, oh you know, but sometimes they they don't. I'm like man, I'm loose-lipped sober.

Tim Newman: 10:48

I don't even want to think about what I potentially say drunk well, that's a good thing, but better not, better not have any, that's for sure.

Suzanne Culberg: 10:57

Then but then again, that being said, I don't know if it would be that big of a deal, because I literally just say whatever comes into my head. People find it really quite affronting, but and other people find it really refreshing because I'll be like you know, someone says you want to do this.

Tim Newman: 11:11

Oh hell, no, I love that, you love it, but it's a no from me but I I find it really, really refreshing because, you know, most people are couching their words, they're they're catching what they say, catching what they think, because again, they're so afraid of upsetting somebody or hurting their feelings or feeling bad about themselves or for any of the other number number of reasons you know. For me, most people that know me know I'm just going to say pretty much whatever I think, anyway, because I don't have time to play games, or you know, it's not that I'm trying to necessarily hurt your feelings, and if I say something I'm not, it's not my, never my intent, but I just don't have time to play those. I call it games, but you know what I'm talking about.

Suzanne Culberg: 11:56

It is, it's mind games. And then you've got to keep track of your story. Like one of my biggest things and I used to do this say you invited me to an event and I didn't want to go. I couldn't say no because I felt rude or I didn't want to let you down or whatever. So I'd say yeah, I'm sorry, I can't come. And now that we have mobile phones and direct messages, it's so much easier. You don't even need to ring the person, you just send them a message.

Suzanne Culberg: 12:21

And to me, in all honesty, it is so much ruder to say yes when you have no intention of going, especially if it's an event that they've had to cater for you or it's something you know that your presence will be missed.

Suzanne Culberg: 12:34

Then if you were just honest at the front end and the other thing that happens is say you invite me to I always use Tupperware parties as an example. It's more of a women's thing, I don't know what the men's equivalent would be, but you know, you have a bunch of people around your house and you sell them some MLM stuff. If I say, oh, no, next time, but I don't mean it because I don't actually want to go, next time you host one, you're going to invite me again, oh no, next time. That gets to a number of next times where the person second guesses maybe suzanne doesn't like me. Like how many times is she going to say next time? So they stop inviting you, when suzanne actually loves you, but she doesn't like tupperware, like she's got no time for plastic, so if I just said thanks for inviting me.

Suzanne Culberg: 13:12

Team, you know I don't do popwear, but if you have a candle party, I'll be there and probably your biggest spender because, like, I love candles you know.

Tim Newman: 13:19

But I just think there's something about saying next time when you really don't mean it exactly, and you know, for me, one of the biggest ones for me is if my wife wants to go out somewhere or we're meeting some people. And she said why, why don't you come home? You know, do a couple of things and then we'll go. And I said, you know the deal, if I go home I'm not going anywhere. So if, if you want me to go, I'll go, but I'm not going home, because if I'm home, forget it, it's not happening.

Suzanne Culberg: 13:52

But it's funny.

Tim Newman: 13:54

You know you have to, you know you have to actually say that it's not that I don't want to go, it's just if I do this, then the other is not happening.

Suzanne Culberg: 14:03

I'm exactly the same. Once I've gone home, I'm not leaving again. Or also phrase the question Like my kids know if they ask would you like to, I will be 100% honest with them no, I don't like to, but I will, depending on what it is Like can you take me to my friend's place? You've got a new puppy? It's like no, I don't want to drive you over there, but I will. So it's instead will you? And then recently they stayed with my sister. I was home alone, I had a staycation, thank you, shout. And she was like would you like to help me garden? And they both said no. And then she rang me and she's like you're kids. And I'm like no, no, you don't say would you like to? You say will you? That's a different question.

Tim Newman: 14:41

Exactly. It's a very different question. And that goes into listening too right, because from a communication perspective, as individuals we're not good listeners. We're, as individuals, we're not good listeners and if we actually listen to what's being asked and respond to what's being asked, that that's a very that, like you said, that's very different than just you know responding to what you think somebody else said or we're giving an answer that you think somebody actually wants. You're actually listening to what's what's being said, you think about your response to that and then you answer intelligently yeah, and I think that's the other thing too.

Suzanne Culberg: 15:17

Sometimes we another people pleasing hack or trick is you do something and and play into people's sense of reciprocity. So sometimes people will send me a message and go love your podcast. I gave you a five-star review, I I shared it on socials. Now I'm going to be a guest, like they. You know, it's just.

Suzanne Culberg: 15:36

I find that really bizarre because I have a process to become a guest on my show. You're most welcome to it, but you announcing that you've done all these things and now here's what I'm going to do in return. There was never any discussion here, it was just like an assumed thing, and it's amazing how often people do that. Like I shared all your stuff. Now here's this thing I have coming up and I'm like is this in alignment with my brand? Do I even know who you are? Is this of interest to me?

Suzanne Culberg: 16:01

I just find it amazing how often people don't actually front end it with hi, suzanne. Like when you and I got chatting, you said I've been to your website. I love the don't click. We had this thing. It takes a few moments, but when you connect with the person genuinely yes, rather than just assuming um, it makes all the difference because some podcasts not mine and I know not yours but they only take on guests who have worked with them. So if you like, approach them or whatever they're like no, you need. Or some podcasts charge like you have to come on the show. It costs this much, like there's a process. But so many times in life there's an assumptive thing, like I scratched your back, now you'll scratch mine, it's like. But did I even want my back scratched?

Tim Newman: 16:42

yeah, you just started. You just started touching me.

Suzanne Culberg: 16:43

I didn't even ask you to be touched exactly, yeah, and also, too, like you shared it up. That's one of the my most annoyed messages I get when people say I shared this, this, now can you share mine? And I'm thinking I don't know you, I don't know what your stuff is about. I'm very choosy, like I love to share freely if I know the person Right. But you know, if you're selling Kagan alkalized water and I'm just like water's water man, I'm not going to share it.

Tim Newman: 17:13

Well, go back to what we just talked about. If somebody asks you to share a beer brand, you're not going to share the beer brand because you don't drink beer. You don't know. That doesn't make any sense. And if somebody takes any bit of time to get to know you, they're going to know that that endorsement or that sharing it's crap. It doesn't mean anything, it's of no value to crap. It doesn't mean anything, it's not. It's not helping.

Suzanne Culberg: 17:35

It's of no value to you. I don't have drinkers in my audience. Well, I might do, but you know.

Tim Newman: 17:41

So I mean, it's that's the other, the other piece of it. You know when, when you this is a little bit far afield, but but you are a brand in and of itself, right. I mean, you've built a brand, you are a brand and if you start doing things that are off brand, you've actually diminished your value and your business value and people. I'm sure people realize that. Maybe they just don't think about it and because they wouldn't do it right If they wouldn't do it for themselves, but they expect other people to do it for them without you know that process, that vetting process.

Suzanne Culberg: 18:23

Yeah, I think that's such an important thing. So recently, on my own podcast, I started allowing pre and post role ads that are prerecorded, so not ones that I endorse, but ones that are just added, and there's a series of categories that you can turn on and off, and I turned off gambling, politics, religion, like the things that you know. I don't mind how much that's paying me, it's not associated with my message and I don't really want, because when you put something in front of your thing, as you said, if I'm like advertising jim bean or johnny walker or whatever and I don't drink at all, it's it sends a confusing message to people it really does it.

Tim Newman: 19:01

And and then how are they gonna gonna trust what you're saying, when, when the messages that actually matter, right? 100 yeah and, by the way, I do like the, the kind of the change that you did with your, with your podcast, with some of the um, uh, just you talking. I listened to some of those just the other day oh.

Suzanne Culberg: 19:24

So what I've done now, yeah, is originally my podcast was half and half. It was half solo, like me just talking, and half guest. Now my podcast and coach is fully guest. And then my solo ramblings are on patreon. So patreon is a platform which I'm falling in love with because it gives people an rss feed so they can get the link and put it into which wherever they listen spotify, apple, whatever and then I have a real separation in my brand. So if you want my interviews, this is where you. So if you want my interviews, this is where you go. If you want my solo stuff, this is where you go. Mostly it's paid. It's like $10 a month, so it's not a huge amount for the solo stuff, but there is a couple of just one offs here and there.

Tim Newman: 20:06

And and again. I love that because you're you're, you're giving, you know, your your followers, your your listeners, you know the people that are, whatever you want to call them I mean, each platform calls them different things You're giving them different ways to consume different types of content from you, which is great yeah, and I think that's something.

Suzanne Culberg: 20:24

It evolves over time. It evolves over time. So in the beginning I had just, you know, my podcast, and then I really realized how much I liked interviews and I also write a newsletter. I, I'm a prolific content creator. I read something, I have thoughts, I write. And then I was like, oh, I think I'm kind of exhausting my newsletter list. No one's ever complained, but you know so. Patreon gives me the freedom and flexibility to write, talk, sing badly, um, but share. And then people have definitely selected in because they're paying the you know the ten dollars a month and then interact and comment on those posts in a non-public way, like if you, if you comment on my youtube or my instagram reels or whatever, your mom, your sister, your next door neighbor, especially when we talk about boundaries and saying no and difficult things, whereas in the patreon only other patreon members are going to see it. So you can be a little bit more uh, direct, which is, you know what I love right, exactly, exactly so.

Tim Newman: 21:20

So when did you realize that, um, you had a problem saying no and you weren't being a a good friend, um, and that made you a doormat? You know, I I've heard you tell the the story and I think I think it's a really powerful story that people need to hear, because we all we don't all do it, but but people that have trouble saying no find themselves in these positions all the time.

Suzanne Culberg: 21:46

Yeah, well, when I share this story now and I know you've heard it before, but the first time I shared it I felt so awkward and I was in a like a group zoom meeting and you see everyone's heads in bubbles and there, honestly, wasn't a dry eye in the house and I was so confused and I said to my biz friend who was there like I thought I'd be the only person on earth who had this particular thing happen. And she's like, yeah, but the essence of what happened is what people connect with and I think you know we we have different situations, but how it plays out is is universal. So basically I was, I had my oldest child, I didn't have my second kid yet and she was just under a year old and I went to mom's group A lot of people you meet up once a week with other moms with babies and fabulous. And I met this other mom and she didn't have a car and I'd see her at the supermarket with her trolley or stroller pram, depending where you are in the world hanging all her grocery bags to it and pushing it to the bus stop and trying to navigate the baby and this pram and the groceries and I was like I felt so bad for her. So I said hey, would you like me to pick you up and take you to the supermarket? Once a week we go at a similar time. It's no worries, that'd be I don't mind, and that's being generous.

Suzanne Culberg: 23:03

I think sometimes people pleases, we don't identify as people pleases, we're just generous. That is an act of generosity. And she said, yep, that'd be great. So I meet her once a week. I'd drive to her house. She'd put her son's car seat in next to my daughter. We'd go to the supermarket. We'd buy our groceries. She'd leave her bags undone. I'd tie mines. When we opened the boot, or you guys would say the trunk, we could easily tell whose was whose without having to get all the groceries out. It was great, did that for a couple of times. She'd run out of stuff in the middle of the week and she'd give me a call to send me a text Suzanne, can you take me to get nappies? Suzanne, can you run me to the pharmacy? I've got to pick up a script. And even then almost still generous, because I was once a week or so and I could have said no. And that's the thing too. Sometimes we don't even think I was like, yeah, sure, and I felt so. I felt so bad for her car. We called ourselves the orphans as a joke, because we all lived away from our family interstate. We weren't actually orphans, but there was a group of us who had no parents, no family support, no grandparents it's tough with babies and so I did that.

Suzanne Culberg: 24:08

And then it became every other day, and then it pretty much became every day, and then it was things like hey, my in-laws are visiting, can you pick them up from the airport? And you might think, oh, that's not so bad. The airport was over an hour from my house and never once did she offer fuel, gas, petrol, money. Also, never did I ask. But I went to the airport and then she was having her kid's first birthday party and said can you, can I borrow some? Um cutlery, crockery, plates we're having it at the park. Do you mind helping me set up? And then I'm going to hang out with my in-laws. Can you take the stuff home and wash it like? In hindsight now I can see, my god, what was I doing. And in the moment little seeds of resentment came. I was like what am I doing? But not enough to ever speak up.

Suzanne Culberg: 24:54

And then one day we were at one of these mums' group meetups again and they had like the public bathrooms and I was in one of the stalls and she was at the sink with another mum who said to her hey, I've got this something on this event. Would you like to come? And then she's like hang on, I just remember you don't have a car, don't worry about it. And she's like oh, no, suzanne will take me, she's my little bitch. And I overheard this in the stall and I just remember I felt like I'd been hit, like it was like a whack to the face and that saying the truth hurts, like it was a guttural experience of that, because it did hurt. I felt hit, I felt like the rash of despair and I felt like, oh my god, she doesn't. Does she even like me, or am I just literally her little bitch? And then someone has asked since who's heard this story? They're like you know, did you ever confront her about that? And I'm like oh, I'd like to say you know, if this conversation happened today, there'd be a whole different situation. But I did ask her about it in the weeks to come and she just laughed it off as it was a joke.

Suzanne Culberg: 26:01

And I think sometimes when our feelings are hurt and we're trying to genuinely communicate like this is how I feel and people are like, oh, I didn't mean it, it was a joke. Like isn't that the very thing of gaslighting? No, it's not. It's not, it's not dark. But you know, sometimes people don't hear us or they want to downplay, or they want, don't want, to dismiss it. Now, when people do that to me because it still happens sometimes I'll be like well, I'm sorry, tim, I didn't find that funny. I wouldn't even say I'm sorry, I'm like that's not a joke to me.

Tim Newman: 26:26

This is how I feel, and if people really just don't want to acknowledge, when I heard that story for the first time, my wife was in earshot of the speaker and she gasped and she said what did I just hear? I said, yeah, you heard it right. And she actually came over and listened to the whole story again. And you know we had a conversation about that because, because you know, we get into the whole idea that, yes, we kind of like you and I just talked about briefly there's things that we do for people that we care about and we, we take each other for granted.

Tim Newman: 27:14

You know there's people that we care about on a regular basis and sometimes you know we feel that that, that same way, oh, he'll just do it or she'll just do it, I don't even have to worry about just sending her a text. Oh, I need you to do this or I need you to do that without thinking about it. And you know that actually started a conversation with the two of us, you know, being a little bit more thoughtful about how we go about. You know asking each other to do things that we could either easily do ourselves or do in our own timeframe. What have you, as opposed to just relying on somebody else to do that for us? So that that really did start a a a good conversation.

Suzanne Culberg: 27:54

It's such a conversation starter. So, like my, my daughter now is nearly 12 and she's a competitive cheerleader and her competitions like I pay for the classes, I pay for the costume, I drive her out every week, I pick her up, I help her train like I do all this sort of stuff and then when there's the competitions on, I pay for the seat and then I sit there for three to five hours watching all these routines for my kids three minutes and I'm often sweating. And then when she doesn't win, she gets in this total funk and is impossible to talk to. And I said to her at the last competition if this happens again, I will not attend. And she's like you have to, you're my mum, whatever. I'm like I don't have to. I can drop you off and I can pick you up, but this is my entire day where I'm sitting in a loud, crowded, sweaty hall Like I don't have to do this. She was horrified and she actually has her next competition in two days from now.

Suzanne Culberg: 28:48

And I'm like, if this experience isn't different, like you're allowed to be upset that you didn't win, you're allowed to be frustrated, you're allowed to talk about all it is, but if you sit there like and go on and on and on. Like this is not a great experience for me. Um, I'm not available for this. I'm not your virtual mental punching bag for when things don't go well. And I just her whole thing was like that never occurred to me.

Suzanne Culberg: 29:07

And now this next competition is right next door to where cold play is going to be playing, so I can't get a park. So I was like I can't pre-book the parking, I'm like I don't even know how we're going to get there. But then I just found out that Coldplay has a courtesy bus. I was like let's just hop on you and your cheer uniform, nobody will know, so we're just getting a free trip out there. But I think people don't realise the things that parents, friends, caretakers, neighbours put themselves through to be able to attend these things for you. And then you just take it for granted and I was like, yeah, I love watching you, cheer, I don't love watching the other 90 teams cheer.

Tim Newman: 29:41

Right, it's not. Don't even get me into cheer, because I've got trauma from that from my kids. You know just a quick story. You brought it up.

Tim Newman: 29:53

So my old starter played field hockey and they went on a trip to Disney World, and in Disney World in Florida they've got the Wide World of Sports. So they do all kinds of travel competitions, this, that and the other thing there. So my daughter went with her team and my wife and I went down separately and we get there, and at the Wide World of Sports at this time they were also doing a cheer competition. And we get there and at the Wide World of Sports at this time they were also doing a cheer competition. And so we're oh my God, there's like four and five-year-old girls doing cheer and that's great, awesome. But the parents, we're not going anywhere until you put makeup on and curl your hair. I'm saying this girl is four years old. I was like phew. I said no, I'm not doing that. And then my youngest daughter ended up getting into cheerleading and that was. God bless her. That was. That was so much fun.

Suzanne Culberg: 30:46

That was I don't do the makeup. I made sure she joined a team that wasn't required. It's only optional and I'll do the high hair because they have to like the spray. But, um, I chose a team that doesn't have the braids because there's one team that does this little. I'm like I'd have to pay someone. There's no way I could do the hair like that. Getting my kids hair on top of her head is hard enough. But funny, you should say field hockey, because in Australia we have hockey and ice hockey and I love how you guys have hockey and field hockey. The first time I had this conversation because I was like I'd heard, I was like what is field hockey? And then someone like so you mean like hockey? And I'm like yeah, that's what we call it. I'm like what do you guys call hockey? And they described it like oh, that's ice hockey.

Tim Newman: 31:25

Yeah, yeah, and so, and at least with us it's guys don't play field hockey at all. It's all female, it's all female, I mean there are some.

Suzanne Culberg: 31:37

I didn't know that. It's all female.

Tim Newman: 31:39

I mean, there are very, very few. There are very, very few male. It's almost exclusively female.

Suzanne Culberg: 31:45

Maybe that's why Australia always wins gold, because we don't have to fight against America.

Tim Newman: 31:52

I don't know, but yeah.

Suzanne Culberg: 31:55

My sister was a really good hockey player. Whichever hockey it is, that sport is fierce, seriously.

Tim Newman: 32:03

It is, and when they're young it's like watching grass grow, though it's almost like softball Again, god bless them. I love them to death, love them dearly, but watching, you know, seven eight-year-old girls play softball, oh gosh, you do your parent duties and love them and cheer them on and coach them up and all those types of things. But, my God, you know, it just is what it is. You just got to do what you got to do. Thank God they didn't play softball. I don't want them to play softball for very long. They got into lacrosse, which was, for me, much better Lacrosse, lacrosse. I love lacrosse.

Suzanne Culberg: 32:53

My daughter plays just cheerleading, obviously, but she also plays AFL, Aussie Rules Football. So it cracks me up because I'm like you could literally do the whole thing. You could run out at halftime and do your cheer, run back in. But she plays on the mixed team too, so not just women's or girls, as you call it. She plays the mixed and I've never seen somebody so rough and tumble and she'll get this giant bruise and she'll be like, yeah, and I'll be like, oh, good for her, that's awesome.

Tim Newman: 33:20

I mean, that's I, I love it. I played rugby for a while, um, which is which I know is different than aussie football, but uh, the same type of stuff and and it's. I love the action, love the violence, you know you it's, it's controlled violence, so you can get some of your frustrations out and have some fun controlled violence.

Suzanne Culberg: 33:42

That's a good way of putting it yes, it is.

Suzanne Culberg: 33:44

Yeah, but I do. It also depends on the sport I've never been one for. Do you guys call soccer? Do you call it soccer, like I think in the uk they call it football. That one's never enjoyed me because it's so much running around for maybe one goal. I've just been like, oh, this is but um afl. My daughter's team's really good and I haven't seen the last few games but they've won like 50 and 60 to like five and six and I was like, did the other team even show up? Like seriously?

Tim Newman: 34:11

so, um, yeah, but she's just got a competitive edge like I've never seen that's awesome, uh, you know, and I love it for kids to be able to do that, that type of stuff. Now, you know they that's not a sport that they'll be able to do when they're, when they're 30 or 40 or 50, like golf, but at least they're active, they're learning skills, they're making friends, they're you know, those types of types of skills are that that she's learned? You know teamwork, you know competition, communication. All those types of things really do bleed over into you know, normal everyday life and I think it's awesome for kids.

Suzanne Culberg: 34:50

Yeah, 100%, and I think you're right strategy, competition, communication, all things that are really important, yeah.

Tim Newman: 34:56

But you said something a little bit ago. You said sorry, I don't. And then you stopped yourself. You said sorry I don't, and then you stopped yourself I'm not sorry. And that's something that I over I'd say. Over the last four or five months I've caught people saying sorry and I stopped them. I said now hold on, are you really sorry or is that just an excuse? And most of the time they say no, I'm not really sorry. And I said well, tell me what you actually mean and how you actually feel. If you're not sorry, don't say sorry, right. And again, that's so important from a communication perspective because you know, if you tell me that you're sorry, that means you're apologizing to me for something, and if you've got nothing to apologize for, then don't apologize. Say whatever it is. That also alleviates some of the stress and whatever feelings that those people have from them, to get them to understand that you don't have to worry about that with me.

Suzanne Culberg: 35:58

Yeah, it's something I was very conditioned to growing up, to always say sorry and always apologize, and it's something I do catch myself. I caught myself earlier and, yeah, I'm not sorry like I'm unavailable or I can't do this or whatever. So when I do catch it, I do speak up, but I think we're conditioned to say sorry and it it's like but we're really not.

Tim Newman: 36:22

Right.

Suzanne Culberg: 36:23

And it's you know if we're truth or I've said, because sometimes people are demanding of an apology, like you know, I want you to apologize but I'm like, but I'm not sorry. So something I will say it's like I'm sorry you feel that way, which I am, I'm sorry that Something I will say it's like I'm sorry you feel that way which I am, I'm sorry that you know we've had this disagreement or whatever, but I'm not sorry for what I said or what I did, because that would be a lie. And I think sometimes you know it's interesting people will demand recompense or apology, depending on the situation. So I had an example recently. My husband and I we have one car, mostly works because we live in the city. We're one hour from the Harbour Bridge or three hours. Sydney Harbour Bridge depends on traffic. There's no in-between, okay.

Suzanne Culberg: 37:07

And he had to go into the city and I was dropping him at the train station because I needed the car that day and he said I'll be home after five. I was like sweet, so I didn't have to pick the kids up. I have one kid home, one kid at school and I was like I'll record. So I was just recording my solo stuff in my own zone phones off. You and I are both checking our phones off like face down before Suddenly my son comes in and my kids know not to interrupt me unless it's an actual emergency. So I was like, well, what's happened? And he said you need to call daddy now. And I turned my phone over and there's all these missed calls and all these messages and my first thought to him was he's been injured because he works in power. Stuff happens and I was like oh my gosh. So I rang him immediately. He's like where are you? It's like pardon, he's like I'm at the train station. I'm like it's half past two.

Suzanne Culberg: 37:54

We'd agreed on five o'clock and when I went to pick him up, I said I'm sorry and I up. I said I'm sorry and I caught myself. I said no, I'm not sorry. We agreed after five o'clock and he's like I messaged you and I'm like but I didn't check my phone Like you can see if something's been read or whatever, and we had quite a little argument that we then fixed up later. But I said to him you're a grown ass adult mate.

Suzanne Culberg: 38:14

You could have caught a taxi or an uber. You could have walked. It's not that far. You could have arranged another way to get home. When you realized that I wasn't available and I won't be yelled at because I'm not there, and he apologized, like he's like, yeah, I'm sorry, I shouldn't have raised my voice, and he was like, yeah, I'm not sorry, but past me would have felt so bad. Oh, I should have been checking my phone. I am the worst wife ever. And I said no, we agreed on. After five, he changed the plan. He didn't actually. Yes, he communicated it with me, but it was one-sided. He didn't get me on the phone or see that I'd responded and said I'll be there. So I wasn't sorry, right, and I'm your husband.

Tim Newman: 38:51

At times, you know, in those types of situations I'm your husband. Like I tried to call you, you didn't answer your phone. So it's your fault, right? And my wife calls me on that all the time. She said, no, it's not my fault Because, again, just like you said, I didn't answer, I didn't see the voicemail, I didn't see a text message, I didn't see any of that stuff.

Tim Newman: 39:17

We agreed on whatever we agreed on, and just because you changed the plan doesn't mean that I've got to drop everything that I'm doing. And so those types of conversations and back and forth are, I think, are universal everywhere. You know so and my wife is the one that does a lot of you know the real changing of the plan. So let's just say, like, today we only have one car as well, and so I've got this interview and you need to pick me up as soon as I'm done, because we have to get to the store that actually closes an hour later, so we don't have a whole lot of time because, for whatever reason. And so if she's not here, she'll say well, I decided to do something else this Saturday.

Tim Newman: 40:03

I think I said well, we, we've decided that we really have to do this today. If it's not done today, you know we won't be able to do it till next week, whatever. But those types of things happen and you know, I kind of chalk it up to it's our dance. These are the things that we do to each other inadvertently and then, as we get caught doing it, I mean okay, I'm sorry, I did that and I'm not going to make it your fault. That's the other piece is acknowledging it and not making it somebody else's fault. Owning that, whatever that situation is.

Suzanne Culberg: 40:36

Yeah, and I have my own times where I expect him to be my reader. I'll just like, I'll say it'll come out of my mouth. I'll be like listen to what I mean, not what I say. And then everyone my kids, everyone will start laughing and I'll be like, oh, but you know, we do expect, because we have this whole thing going on in our heads, like you meet in the morning and you're like we're going to do this this afternoon, but then something else happens for them and something else happens for you and you just kind of assume. So it happens on both ends. But in this example it was one where I I caught myself. I was apologizing. So what am I apologizing for? Like I said, after five, it's not after five. I understand it's hot and you're frustrated, but you know you could have got home in another way, exactly so is.

Tim Newman: 41:18

Is there? Is there a difference between not being able to say no in your, in somebody's personal life as opposed to their professional life?

Suzanne Culberg: 41:28

That is an excellent question. Some people there's vast difference Like some people in the workplace are like almost drill sergeant ability to like run their team and whatever, and they come home and they're a total doormat. Some people at home have really great boundaries, but my dad's one of those. At home he's like exactly right, but in the business he'd literally give the shirt off his back, somebody would whatever and he would just fold and yeah, it's, it's. It's interesting dynamic and and some people are just across the board, either the yes person everywhere or the no person everywhere, and I think it's just an individual thing. But if you are across the board, struggle to say no. Always find yourself saying yes. Where I'd encourage you to start is with people who don't yet know you, so like, say you, like I used to be the type I I'll go to the supermarket. Would you like a bag with that? Yes. Would you like a corn cob? Yes. Would you like fries?

Suzanne Culberg: 42:25

Yes, they didn't have to finish their sentence. I'd just be like yes, yes, yes, because I felt so bad. Somebody was asking me for something and my sister and I went to the States recently and everywhere people are like we don't have tipping and we don't have the taxes afterward, and it's very different culture. But the upsell game in the States is a lot stronger than here and and she was just like she got really frustrated and I was like it's their job to ask, like, if you buy a corn cob or an extra side of chips or you guys call them fries I asked for a burger and chips somewhere. I got this burger. I was like where are my chips? That's weird. And then I bit into it and it's like this crunch. And I was like, oh, they put potato chips on my burger. That's because I asked for a burger and chips. That's awesome.

Suzanne Culberg: 43:11

But the story is it's their job, like, so if you say no to somebody in a thing like that, then it's for people who are such people pleasers to you it's like oh my gosh, but to them they don't care. So you know, and the people who don't know a different version of you don't know any other version of you. So you start to, you know, build that muscle of being able to say no or no. Thank you, like all that. You know the people in the shopping centers. I don't know if you have them there.

Suzanne Culberg: 43:39

They have like a stall in the middle and they're selling vacation points or they're selling gym membership and they pretty much like, attack you and then you can't get away from them. It's like no thanks, like, and keep walking and then be like yes, I'm not sucked in to listen to some spiel about whatever it is for an hour, so start there.

Tim Newman: 43:59

And so that kind of leads into it. How do you say no to or start setting boundaries with people that you're close with If you've been the yes person for forever and you realize you know what I need to make some changes? How do you start making those changes without being, you know, that person, that bitch or that you know what the hell is wrong with you? Because you know, yesterday you weren't like this and two weeks ago you weren't like this. Now, all of a sudden, you're just telling me no, all the time, you're not doing this, you're going to do whatever you want to do.

Suzanne Culberg: 44:37

How do you start that process.

Suzanne Culberg: 44:40

I think the most important thing is to have a conversation about it first, not just announce from now on, I decree I'm going to do this. Have a conversation and also make sure you have the person's full attention. So my husband's a gamer. If he's playing Xbox, I could say, hey, I want to go to Paris tomorrow. He'd be like, oh okay, do you know what I mean? He's not paying me any attention. That's how I've gotten away with getting a few things that I want. But, like, make sure you ask is this I have something I want to discuss and, depending on the person, I would say don't worry, it's nothing serious, you don't have to panic because we've had a lot illness in the family and stuff. So if I'm like there's something I want to discuss, I can just like are you sick? So we're like no, this is not, there's nothing untoward, but it's important to me and I want to have a discussion. Is now a good time? Because sometimes it's not a good time. You've got your own stuff going on and then someone's telling you they're going to start setting boundaries and you're like what? So, in whatever way, works for you, initiate a conversation. Make sure you have their full attention. They're not reading a book, they're not scrolling, they're not playing Xbox.

Suzanne Culberg: 45:41

And I always start the conversations with up until now, because I want to acknowledge what's happened up until now. I can give you an example my daughter has anxiety I have anxiety too and, um, what was happening is she was coming into my room at like 10 o'clock at night as I'm getting ready for bed, and she should have been asleep and unloading what had happened at school that day, and then I would sit and I would listen and hold support and whatever, and then get her to sleep and then I would feel all wired because you've just listened to all this. So then I'd need time so that I'm not really getting myself to sleep to one o'clock because I've got to. I've got to deal with my own emotions after I've helped her deal with hers. And I sat down with her and I said up until now, when you've had these big emotions that's what we call them big feelings and you've been coming in late at night as mummy's getting ready to bed, I've been listening to them. So acknowledge this is how it's been happening.

Suzanne Culberg: 46:34

From here on out, that can't happen anymore and you can depend on whether you want to tell them why or not, it's a personal choice, um and and who the person is and whether it's relevant. So, like for her, I was like because then I don't get to bed too much later and think you know the whole household when I don't get everyone knows. When I don't get sleep, I'm such a bitch, you know. So, anyway, I had this thing. So what I'd like to do, what I'd like to propose, is that you share this with me after school, like I pick them up from school and I have the period of time. And anyway, I was like, are you open for this? And she was like hmm, yeah, okay. So after school the next day, I waited. She didn't say anything.

Suzanne Culberg: 47:13

Then the next night it happened again and I was like, honey, we had this conversation. I have to remind, remind because sometimes people like I don't care about me, whatever, they forget. And and anyway, I was like I told you I'm not doing this anymore. And her dejected face and whatever. I felt so bad. I felt I'm the worst mom in the world. Like you know, the feelings are real, that will happen, but you know you've got to hold this.

Suzanne Culberg: 47:34

Next day. After school, I thought, hmm, maybe I should bring it up so as we come home from school and the snack and everything, I was like, is there anything you want to talk about? And she's like, no, that next night the same thing. And it took a couple of weeks to get into the routine. But long story short, so I don't bore you with all the details.

Suzanne Culberg: 47:49

After school she wasn't ready, it was still too fresh, it was still too raw, it wasn't the right time. 10 o'clock at night didn't work for me. After school didn't work for her. So we found a pattern of like just after dinner, you know, about an hour or so after about 7 pm, and for the first week or so I had to say to her every day anything you need to share now, anything you need to share now, like remind her this is the time. And now she knows. Because we've established this, because I think sometimes we have a thing in our head. This thing in our head, this is how it's going to work, like ideally for me. Three o'clock perfect, give me. All your problems didn't work for her. 10 o'clock works for her, doesn't work for me. See, as you set these boundaries, there's going to need to be some negotiation and also sometimes some reminding, and sometimes you will have to let people down. Like you know, those first few nights I could hear her in her room like upset and I was like, oh my gosh, but what am I teaching her if every time I go in and just acquiesce, it's like we're not learning anything here.

Suzanne Culberg: 48:45

Another example if you don't have a kid with anxieties, if you have a kid like my son had this homework project. He came in at 10 o'clock at night. He goes I've got to build a diorama. I was like cool, when's it due? He's like tomorrow. I'm like we're gonna get zero on that, aren't you? Because by me building the project for him he's not going to learn anything.

Suzanne Culberg: 49:03

So his next project was the paris olympics and he gave it to me the day he got it. We had three weeks to do it. We did it together as in. I've never been the parent who does it for them and we built this powerpoint presentation anyway. On the day they delivered it I said how'd you go? And he got his mark. He said do you know how many other kids, when they hit play on the presentation go? Oh, I don't know what my mum meant by this. Like it was so obvious the parent had done it for them. I was like you're not learning shit if I do your work for you. So, as he was writing this, I was looking at some of the slides and there was so much glitter and brightness I was like I'm dying inside my ear. But I'm not nine years old, so. But they've got to learn themselves. And what are you available for? And they're not going to know that if you don't communicate it.

Tim Newman: 49:48

Right, right. And then they build those habits. And then you know, when they're 25, 30, 40, 50, whatever, they're still doing the same things and maybe going through some of the the same struggles that that we had to.

Suzanne Culberg: 50:02

and if we can stop them at, you know, when they're young they're not gonna have to deal with with some of those, some of those things that we we've had to deal with I used to work for the government for like, um, uh, our health sector and the number of kids at young adults who come in 2025, who didn't know how to fill out a form because they'd never had to. Their parents had done it from the whole time, and I remember handing them over, so I'm not doing a voice on my job. Here's the form. And I remember this one guy and it came back and it'd be like first name, middle name. So here, your middle name is your second name. So he'd put um, chris christopher, and was like is your name Chris, christopher? And he's like no, my name's Christopher and Chris is my nickname. He didn't understand.

Suzanne Culberg: 50:44

So I'm not being sarcastic, I explained it to him, but I was like I think sometimes, when we try to help whether it be our kids or anybody, our partner, our friends to the point that we actually hamstring them because they don't know how to do it on their own. You're not always going to be there, right? So I wasn't rude to him. I was like, oh, dude, like your second name is in, you know what's your middle name? Oh, so, you know, I helped him, but he had to fill the form first and then I helped rather than me do it for, because I don't get paid for that well, right now my students don't know the difference between noon, 12 o'clock, noon and midnight.

Tim Newman: 51:27

Oh really 12 o'clock am yeah.

Suzanne Culberg: 51:30

Yeah, yeah.

Tim Newman: 51:33

I don't know how that's possible, but yeah, so when I say something's due at noon, they're really thinking they're thinking midnight. Oh, no, no, no yeah and so yeah, that's what.

Suzanne Culberg: 51:51

That's what we're working with yeah, but I think sometimes we we don't have boundaries or we don't communicate. I'm trying to teach my son 24 hour time because my husband's ex-military, so he'll always be like 1500 or 300 or whatever and my kid will be like what? No, but you got to add 12 to it. So so we're working on that. But yeah, like midnight versus noon, yeah, you're 12 hours late.

Tim Newman: 52:16

Yeah, exactly, exactly, yeah, yeah. I mean, I couldn't even imagine trying to teach them military time. That's a whole different story.

Suzanne Culberg: 52:28

Well, I do like that, that you wouldn't get confused.

Tim Newman: 52:32

Because you know there's 0300 versus 1500.

Suzanne Culberg: 52:35

Right.

Tim Newman: 52:37

You know I would be fine with it, but they'd get the calculator out and say 3 plus 12.

Suzanne Culberg: 52:45

Yeah, I don't know.

Tim Newman: 52:48

They make me laugh sometimes and it is what it is, but hopefully they learn the clock. We'll figure it out.

Suzanne Culberg: 52:57

And sometimes I'm not very nice about it. I can't.

Tim Newman: 53:00

My patience sometimes with that is not very much. I just can't.

Suzanne Culberg: 53:06

I've never had patience with time Like I've always been punctual, right on time, and my sister is not Like. She'll say oh, I'll see you at 12-ish. And to her, 12-ish can be any time from 12 to like half past one, and I'm like no, no, you'll see me at 12. Oh, 12-ish, no, no, no, 12. Exactly.

Tim Newman: 53:26

I'm the same way. I mean I've got too many other things to do to worry about. You know, 12 ish, you know. So you know, especially, you know doing these types of things. You know I've got. I tried to set my wife up with a with a calendar, like like how many, which is what we use with this? And she said, well, which calendar should I use to to attach it to? I said, well, you need to have have, you should only have one, you just whatever, whatever you should have one calendar. That way you're not confusing, you're not, you're not double booking anything. Everything comes from one one place. And she said, well, how do you do it? And I showed her and she said don't you ever get confused? I said the only time I ever get confused is if I forget to put something in my calendar.

Suzanne Culberg: 54:11

Yeah that's it, and I live my life by my Google Calendar and for my business I use acuity, which is equivalent to Calendly, and then last week, for whatever reason, they stopped syncing, so acuity didn't sync with Google Calendar, so I ended up with double bookings and I was like, how did this fall? I fixed it, but I was like, oh my gosh, this is so frustrating because they automatically book each other out. So some people who still use the pen and paper calendar, like you, do you, but I'm like I can't imagine the time to erase and move and rewrite Google Calendar. You just copy, paste or cut Exactly Every Tuesday. I love it. I'm like I don't understand pen and paper calendars in this day and age. No, and also it auto converts. If I send you an invite, Tim, for you know, this time is 9 am Australian time it will show up on your calendar and whatever your time zone is, we don't have to be like, okay, you're in Eastern or whatever it is.

Tim Newman: 55:04

Exactly so. You know the other podcast I do. You know for golf, I told you my partner's in Texas, so sometimes he's two hours behind me, sometimes he's three hours behind me.

Suzanne Culberg: 55:18

So when we try and Depending on daylight savings or not, of course, so I mean depending on who we're interviewing.

Tim Newman: 55:25

I mean it does become mental gymnastics of when all three of us or four of us are free at the same time trying to schedule interviews. Sometimes that is tough and there's no way I could do it if it was all on paper.

Suzanne Culberg: 55:41

Yeah, well, that's another boundary and people-pleasing and whatever communication thing. So I send people my calendar. That's how I want them to book when they write back and go. Oh, you know, no, no, no, I don't want to do it back and forward because also too, say, I send you an email, tim and propose this time, and you take three days to get back to me that time could have already been gone, whereas if you click the link, it will only show you what's available.

Tim Newman: 56:03

so exactly it's like yeah, I don't do this, this is, this is what it is so that kind of brings me to something I do want to ask you about what's your thought on dms?

Suzanne Culberg: 56:14

I heard I don't do dms at all at all I don't do any.

Suzanne Culberg: 56:19

I think dms unsolicited dms are the dick pics of the social media world. I love it like. I just can't stand it, because I've never had a dm that's been legit. Usually it's someone trying to sell me YouTube services or editing services or something I don't want anyway, some mass chain letter thing that if I don't respond I'm going to end up, I don't know, desolate on an island or something, or just someone's. Yeah, it's just phishing and it clearly says if you go to it so I have this year, in 2024, I pretty much stopped using social media. I didn't delete it because I figure when you hear someone's name, you tend to either look for their website or their social. So I wanted people to know I exist as a business.

Suzanne Culberg: 57:00

But if you go to my Instagram, for example, I have what's called a static nine grid means it doesn't move and it's a series of posts which direct you to my podcast, my youtube or my website, because that's the places that I hang out. And on my website it directs you to, even though it says don't click. There is contact in the footer but, like I'm clear, I respond to email. Like you know, I think the thing when people pleasing. Whatever you're like, I'm missing out on these opportunities. If somebody doesn't want to take five minutes to contact me in the way that I want to be contacted, like on my personal facebook. It says there's a sentence of something that's paraphrased. It basically says this is my personal profile. If you want to contact me about business, go here. And it directs them to the contact page direct, not the don't click page. The number of people who comment on that very post because it's pinned and say check your others folder, I'm like I will not. I've told you how to contact me and you've insisted on DMing me. No.

Tim Newman: 57:55

Exactly, and how good is that relationship going to be if you can't follow simple directions? I mean, that's you know, just because to me that is really just simple following instructions, following directions. And if you want to have a business relationship, you know there's certain that you need to to trust that they're going to be able to do right that's just.

Suzanne Culberg: 58:17

There's one lady that I met in a networking, like a zoom meeting, and I went to the thing and she said she likes to be contacted by instagram. I thought because I don't do dms but that's how she likes to be contacted, so anyway, I couldn't, I stuffed it, it was, it was whatever. And I saw her and she's like for you, you can email me. But it's funny. But I did try to honor the thing but I was like where did it go? Because on my, on my business Facebook page, you can't DM me. I've deleted it, you can actually remove the option. And on Instagram I've deleted it for people who don't follow me. Like there is a back end way, you can't get rid of it entirely. So I'm trying to tell, to honor her way of being, and I'm a bit confused and she's like just email me. It was funny that's awesome.

Tim Newman: 59:05

That's awesome, oh man. So when, when you're, when you're dealing with figuring out why people have a problem saying no, is there a gender? Do you think there's a gender specific reason to not say no? For let's just say for, for feelings, as opposed to males who may not want to say no because, um, if they don't do it, it won't be done, done properly. Um, you know, for me a lot, at least for me a lot of times, from a business perspective, I won't say no because I I know if I do it, it'll be done right, it'll be done the way I want it done. Does that make sense?

Suzanne Culberg: 59:51

Yeah, it makes total sense. I'd never made that connection before, but that's such a good point. I think you know in general and obviously these are generalizations not everybody falls in every category, like not every kid who's a cheerleader also plays football.

Suzanne Culberg: 1:00:02

So you know, usually they tend to do one or the other, but you know so, in general for women it's the emotion thing, Like I don't want to upset them, I don't want to disappoint them, I can't handle having somebody be mad at me. But for men, as you said, like I know my husband would be like it would just be easier if I just do it myself. It's like you hired this person to help you and then you're just doing it yourself. Like this is you know, or they won't do it right, and like if I show them once and that's forevermore, and if they don't get it they don't respect me. Well, maybe they didn't understand, or maybe what you said when you explained it this time they heard in a different way. Like your 12 o'clock example, it's due by 12 noon. If you didn't know, noon meant 12pm and you just said 12 noon and you thought it was am and they keep submitting it, like you might be, like they just don't respect me or whatever. It's like no, they literally don't get it.

Tim Newman: 1:00:59

Right, exactly Exactly. And I just, I just wonder you know if, if, as we, as we try to transition out of being that person and setting those boundaries, how much more difficult it is it, or how hard is it to um, say no and not worrying about hurting their feelings or or me having the perception of hurting their feelings?

Suzanne Culberg: 1:01:42

for the feelings one. I can tackle that easier. Um, I'll get to the other one, but a frame that is really helping. I got this from henry cloud. Um, he talks about hurt versus harm. So if I say no, their feelings may be hurt. But that is true, that's not on me. I don't get to manage other people's feelings. But have I harmed them? It's like no, I haven't. So I can feel much better in myself that I haven't harmed anyone, like by not going to the tupperware party or by not sitting through hours of cheer or by not building a diorama at 10 pm at night, like I haven't harmed them. They're hurt because they're left high and dry and stuck and they might get a crappy grade. But that hurt feelings is hopefully the impetus for them to do something differently in future, as opposed to just oh, mum will fix or suze will fix or she's my little bitch you know, so that helps me a lot.

Suzanne Culberg: 1:02:33

I am no doubt that I hurt people's feelings just by being me, but I feel so much better inside myself than trying to do things or remember which story I've told or which excuse I've given or which version of me. So I think you know hurt versus harm. This might hurt, but I'm not responsible for other people's feelings. Another thing I say to myself is offense can only be taken, never given. I wasn't intending to offend them with my no. If they made the assumption that I'd do something that I haven't, that's not on me. If I've changed my mind, that's different. Like, if you're like let's go hiking, go hiking. I'm like sure I'll see you at seven, and then it's 6 59. I'm like oh, tm not coming, like with one minute's notice, dude, you would have known at least an hour ago, especially if you had to drive there like if you were pissed, I'd understand that. But if I woke up that morning legitimately feeling unwell or it depends on the thing. So I'm very introverted and my friends all know that. So if we, if we've got plans and I make plans when I'm in an extroverted mood and then I've had drama, I might say I'm not coming tonight I'm having introvert day with hours of notice and we haven't prepaid or something like that, as opposed to say, you were getting married or having, like, my son's assembly tomorrow, it doesn't care how introverted I'm feeling, I'll turn up because it's something important to him. But, like, if you have these things with your friends, that, like today, like my friends always know if they've got to vent, they have to message me first. Have you got spoons? That's our talk. Have you got capacity to listen to me today? Sometimes it'll be no, not today, try me tomorrow. Because we end up we're not at our best and then we're listening to someone else not at their best, and then it's like the blind leading the blind. Or it's like you know you're starting a war within yourself to placate someone else when you have your own shit going on. So hurt versus harm helps with that.

Suzanne Culberg: 1:04:17

But in terms of like not doing it right, I think sometimes it's agree to disagree and decide which tasks you outsource, because, like is the way this is done, like I've got the world's dumbest example, but sometimes these work best. My husband's been in the military, so he has a particular way that he folds socks. I don't like that way because I feel my socks are stretched out too much and they fall at the ankle. I like my socks done the other way and we would argue literally for years about sock folding. So at the end of the day I was like I will fold everyone else's house and socks the way I fold mine and I'll leave yours there in a pile clean and you can fold your own damn socks. So if it's that important to you, then maybe it's something you do yourself.

Suzanne Culberg: 1:05:01

But other things is it that big of a deal? No, does he mind now how I don't iron the sheets like he used to literally iron our sheets and he's like you know I could let that one go. So you know I, I live that I, I and I, I.

Tim Newman: 1:05:18

I'm also prior military, so, yes, there's, there is a way to fold the socks, there's a way to fold everything, and it better be folded that way, because that's the only way it's going to fit into the drawers if you fold it any other way. That's his argument.

Suzanne Culberg: 1:05:29

Yes, yes, we've had this thing and I'm like, if it's this important, if you fold it any other way. That's his argument. Yes, yes, we've had this thing and I'm like, if it's this important to you to do it this way, then this task is yours. You know who? And I think sometimes it's just letting it go because, also, it could be open to the other person's suggestion, may be better.

Suzanne Culberg: 1:05:43

Like when we first moved to this house, we didn't know this suburb and we used to walk to school because we only have the one car, so walk the kids to school. And we keep seeing kids in the uniform here near our house, but then when we got to the school grounds they were already there. So how are those kids getting there? Before we do like we're not slow walkers, they're not overtaking us, then we're like there must be another route. So then one day we not creepily followed the kids and there was like this little laneway that we knew nothing about because it's not obvious and it's safe.

Suzanne Culberg: 1:06:10

Don't worry, it wasn't sketchy, but it was like oh, so sometimes, sometimes someone's way, especially in business, if you're hiring a VA to edit your videos and you like it, but then again, if you're hiring them, you could tell them the way that you like it. But also, too, how long does it take them to do the task? If I hire someone to do something for me and it doesn't take them less time than it does me, I find that bizarre, like it's just a personal thing right, but but but yeah, you're right, I mean that's that's, but you have to be.

Tim Newman: 1:06:40

You also have to be open to having things done better than you would ever do. It which to me is I'm working on that. I'm much better now than I've been, you know. But but that also happens when you know at times you have so much to do you you can't do everything. Well, you have to learn to to be able to to say no and give things up and let other people take them, and that's you know. I guess it's just a learning process for me anyway. It's, you know, starting this business I'm still working full time in my college teaching job.

Tim Newman: 1:07:24

I was doing another side job that I've been doing for years. I love doing and I started this and, as I'm really getting in, was really getting into doing it, my wife said you know, you have to. You're going to hire somebody to do, to do something. You're going to have to give something else up because you're not getting everything done. I said I know, but I've got, I have to. I, I have to be the one that does this. She said no, you don't have to. Of smacked me in the face about May or June, and I'm glad that it did, because that's kind of what woke me up and I saw some other options to get some things done and it's actually being done way better, way quicker, way cheaper than I was doing.

Suzanne Culberg: 1:08:04

I think that's such a great learning curve for everyone because there's that, stephen Covey, or whoever it was, like you fit your big rocks first, but sometimes people just have way too many big rocks. Like I might put the big rocks in the container but they're still coming out the top and it's like over committing yourself and going which ones of these really need to be done at all and which one of these really need to be done by me. Like me, giving up dms was challenging in the beginning because the story I told myself I'd miss out on business or what if people couldn't contact me and I was like is that really true? Or am I missing out on a whole bunch of spammers and people who don't respect me enough to spend five seconds working out the way that I've clearly laid out how to contact me Exactly?

Tim Newman: 1:08:44

Exactly. Is there anything else that we haven't talked about that you know listeners should know about?

Suzanne Culberg: 1:08:51

I guess the biggest thing is sometimes it can be easy to listen to a conversation of someone who's I hesitate to use the word mastered, but mastered the skill that you want, and then think like I'm never going to get there. Or you try something once or twice and it doesn't work out and you dismiss it. Like a lot of my audience are moms and some dads mostly moms in my audience for young children and they're like I could never not have my kids interrupt while I'm working or I could never, you know, have my kids not do their homework for them or whatever. And it's like well, of course you're going to keep showing evidence for that. So the first few times that you say like, I remember the first time I said to my children don't interrupt me unless it's important, like I'm working. They were young and I thought, like you know, maybe I can do some small things. Like yeah, yeah, mommy, okay, got it. The next thing it's not. Even five minutes later, tim, my daughter, comes barreling in and I'm like is it important? She's like yeah, I'm like what is it? I can fit 27 blueberries in my mouth.

Suzanne Culberg: 1:09:48

So then we had to have a discussion about what important actually means. So now. It's like bone or blood. That's why when my son came in that time and he said Daddy needs you, I thought, oh my God, he's at the hospital, like you know, because they know now, but it takes time. It's like if we were going to the gym and you've never lifted weights and you're seeing the dude's bicep curl in like 2050 like a big pound dumbbells and you're trying to lift the two pounds off and it's like I'm sweating already. You're not gonna. You know in your head you're not going to be able to do that tomorrow. Like you understand that because you're not there yet. But when it comes to things like boundaries, things that aren't physical, like that, we think I should be able to just do it. I should be able to tell them once and they should get it.

Suzanne Culberg: 1:10:29

If you've spent years or hesitate to say, decades being that little bitch and you suddenly aren't going to be that anymore, don't pendulum swing to that, because that's how you end up with like no friends, because it's so.

Suzanne Culberg: 1:10:42

It's like it's going to be a process, it's going to suck. The first few dozen times you're going to have to be like and the story you're gonna build in your head about what they're gonna say, most of the time for most people they're like, of course, and you're just like they're the way they take your boundary. You're like, oh, my gosh, wish I'd done this years ago. And then we'll be the one or two like that woman who was like, oh, it's just a joke who you know it's not just a joke. And then you have to question is that the kind of relationship I want to continue to foster? And sometimes it's hard and you will feel like a little bit alone for a while. But when you cut the, cut the cords, that sounds very woo, but anyway, then you have space for people coming who are aligned and then you can foster these deeper connections exactly so where can people find you to work with you and hit the do not click button?

Suzanne Culberg: 1:11:33

My website is the best place to find me, suzannekohlbergcom. It does start here, like in the top, but, as Tim said, some people are more interested in the don't click. But on my website I literally have what I call the everything page, which has everything that I do listed out, from free to paid, how much it is if it's paid, little more information. It's kind of like the hub or the directory. I have all sorts of things. I have a free podcast, I have a paid podcast, I have home study programs, I have one-on-one coaching, like you name it. I've got it.

Suzanne Culberg: 1:12:05

And if you're not sure or you want to chat to me, go to the don click or suzannecoburgcom, forward slash contact, go there anyway and send me a message. You'll know straight away. Like talk about filtering, uh, chances are you'll pick the body option if you, if you know, you know when you see it, because that's 90 of the people who send me a message. Um, and yeah, I will write back. I love having a chat to people about you know, what you found valuable from this episode or any further questions that you have.

Tim Newman: 1:12:31

Thank you so much. I love that you are so unapologetically you. It's refreshing. I think I wish there were more people in the world like that. I think we would be much better off. So thank you so much for joining us and taking some time with us today.

Suzanne Culberg: 1:12:45

Thank you so much for having me, Tim.

Tim Newman: 1:12:48

Be sure to visit the speakingwithconfidencepodcastcom. Oh my gosh, I can't even read. Yeah, that's being cut, because if I can't say my own website, right, that's a problem. Maybe I won't cut it, who knows? Be sure to visit speakingwithconfidencepodcastcom to join a growing community and register for the Formula for Public Speaking course. Always remember your voice has a power to change the world. We'll talk to you next time, take care. I hope you enjoyed the latest episode of speaking with confidence. Give us a review to tell everyone why you love the podcast. You can also download, like and share the podcast with friends. Be sure to visit wwwformerforpublicspeakingcom and sign up for the Former for Public Speaking course. It's a step-by-step system to help you become the confident and powerful speaker you've always wanted to be. We'll see you next time, take care.